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#1 sebastian matthias

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Posted 29 October 2004 - 03:09 PM

Hi evryone !
just today i had a shoot with a lot of running behind and infront actors.
im notthe best runner on earth (jet!) , but wondered if you guys could give me some advice to improve my fast-runningskills. normally i justdid the running shots as if i did normal steadicam:one hand on the arm,one hand at the gimble. today i tried out leaving the hand off the arm and only using the gimble-hand and it justworked fine.now i wonder if that´s the normal way to do it and if there are any tricks or running technics i should practise.i have a big shoot with loads of running coming up i a few month
with heavy 35mm-cameras and i want to be as fit as possible.
Every suggestion is appreciatet very much!
Thanks for your help !

greetings

sebastian-can´t-walk-anymore-because-he-did-too-much-running-today
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#2 Alec Jarnagin SOC

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Posted 29 October 2004 - 03:26 PM

Sebastian,

Why run when you can ride? Obviously, this is not always an option, but if you know you have a shoot coming up with a heavy camera (or even with a light one) that involves tons of running shots, get them to get a vehicle of some sort (ATV, golf cart, etc). Hardmounting allows you to concentrate on framing instead of navigating. I don't care what kind of shape you are in, you can not run faster than a fit person who is not wearing a rig! You'll find that most Production people are reasonable when you explain it like this. All that said, get in shape for the shots when a hardmoount is not an option.
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#3 Tom Schnaidt

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Posted 29 October 2004 - 04:11 PM

Yes Alec is very right - - - and you would be surprised at how reasonable a rental can be for the day ---often the actual rental of the ATV is about 75-100, then there is the drop off and return if you have to have it delivered, or the rental on the trailer if you can tow ... but all things considered, it can be a small price to pay to insure getting the shot. Besides being very taxing to you as the operator, it can be a very perilous endeavor. Two of the three steadicam related accidents I have personally witnessed were from running situations that fell out of control very fast. Go safe --- and that goes double for hard mount.... however you go.

Tom
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#4 David Luckenbach

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 12:34 AM

Sebastian,

Sounds like you did fine...As you found out as you pick up speed, at some point you need to let go of the arm and just hold the sled with one hand and swing the other. Or you really can't get going very fast. The trick is trying to keep a light touch during a time of straining. Not that easy... Also, you need to look where your going more often then usual so you spend less time viewing the monitor, you learn to hold the frame you have and/or "Parallax" the shot at the same time and glance down when your able to check the monitor...As you slow down there is a point when you will feel comfortable about grabbing the arm again and settling into a regular operating position...Running can be very disconcerting for any operator. If a mishap should happen it is very difficult if not impossible to correct once your up to speed, mass takes over and mass wins. I have done many running shots; I know it's not always possible or desirable to hard mount the rig on a dolly or cart. But with care and caution you can do it well and safely...I know I'm over stating the obvious here but if you do know your going to be running try to get the lightest camera you can...And as mentioned in other posts, if your day consists of a lot of running and it's possible to get the shot by hard mounting the rig on to something, try to line that up...

Also, the "One Hand Operating" method works well for going up or down stairs. Try it next time if you haven?t already.

All the best!
David Luckenbach
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#5 Benjamin Treplin

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 02:54 AM

Also, the "One Hand Operating" method works well for going up or down stairs. Try it next time if you haven?t already.


David,
I never thought of one hand operating in this kind of shots. Is it speed related? What is the advantage for you having one hand free on stairs?

Best Benjamin
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#6 sebastian matthias

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 07:08 AM

hello again !
thank you all for your replies! i was thinking about hardmounting on atvs as well,but since most shots will be indoor it´s out of option most of the time.
the idea with the staircases is great and i will try it out as soon as possible.
the camera we will use is probably a moviecam compact (for sound) and an moviecam SL. so it wont be like a 535 or so. i definitely will have to train a lot.
so, thanks everybody and if anyone has some more ideas please let me know.


yours

sebastian
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#7 David Luckenbach

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 10:50 PM

Also, the "One Hand Operating" method works well for going up or down stairs. Try it next time if you haven?t already.


David,
I never thought of one hand operating in this kind of shots. Is it speed related? What is the advantage for you having one hand free on stairs?

Best Benjamin

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


The time it's helpful to me is when I can grab the railing or banister with my free hand, especially when climbing backward. If it were not possible to grab something I wouldn't do it.
I should have been more specific earlier.

David L.
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#8 guillermo nespolo

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Posted 30 October 2004 - 11:44 PM

know that u can make the 535 lighter by taking out the viewfinder optics and replace it with a video top only and using the steadi mags for 535 original made from arri
still its a heavy camera to be runing arround ...if u cant use for the hold shoot a dolly or something that u can mount on (not talking here hard mount just mounted sit on it for a few meters) cause u gonna make a lot of noise runing with a heavy camera lyke that one...
other advise its that some one a spoter or a grip runs with u on your side just in case....u now i dont have to tell u about that little problem call gravity....
larry on the workshop (very important thing to do ones in your life) told us about aiming with the matebox.....be shure i got in your head the size of your lens ...(of course dont try it with a 135mm lens runing :( )
alway always walk a few times before the shoot the path u gonna use for the shoot.....always right before the shoot.....(u never now what someone can forgett on there)
and more important if u can dont run .........
best of lucks...
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#9 RobVanGelder

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 12:21 AM

Another advantage of climbing on stairs with one hand free is that you can see the different steps more clearly, giving you greater confidence in your walk up or down.
Most of the time you do not need to boom up or down anyway, so you let it float on the required hight.

I also prefer to have one hand free, just in case I am off-balance and I can grab a railing or even support myself on a higher step. That happened once to me and I got out of it unhurt and the rig and camera without damage.

And for running: it´s almost impossible to get the same high speed when having 2 hands on the arm/rig.
A body needs a counterbalance during the run and that is that swinging arm. It´s the same as (maybe strange comparison) the tail from a squirrel, when it is jumping.
Both arm and tail work as a counterbalance and as a "rudder".
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#10 Benjamin Treplin

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 06:24 AM

David,
thank you. I will try it next time. At the moment I'm practicing stairs up and down in backward mode, without the rig. You get used to it. And to the odd faces of your neighbours.
Rob I do a lot of booming on stairs. I try to get as close to eye level as I can get. And most DPs are asking for it, especially preceding upstairs.

Best
Benjamin
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#11 David Allen Grove

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Posted 31 October 2004 - 07:35 AM

The time it's helpful to me is when I can grab the railing or banister with my free hand, especially when climbing backward. If it were not possible to grab something I wouldn't do it.
I should have been more specific earlier.

David L.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



I shot Steadicam Second unit on NBC's "Las Vegas" (I did the "woosh" transitions shots and a bunch of background plates for that show) and did escalators for the first time on that show a couple of months ago.

The first shot I didn't grab on to the railing and felt like I was going to fall over. It was a bit jarring. The second time around I used the hand rail, then once settled I felt like I could let go for the ride and was fine.

Yea.. definitely hang onto something ;)

P.S. (ebarassing story alert) If you are on the escalator about 5 or 6 steps or more up, and the director says, "Oh... come back down real quick, quick, come on hurry!!" Ummmm, please don't do it. It will wear you out plus it isn't exactly safe. I made it in one piece but dang! What the heck WAS I thinking?! What was HE thinking!? The production coordinator said, "I can't believe he made you do that!"
Felt a little like George Jetson.. "Janie... get me off this crazy thing!"
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#12 Ruben Sluijter

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Posted 01 November 2004 - 02:41 AM

P.S. (ebarassing story alert) If you are on the escalator about 5 or 6 steps or more up, and the director says, "Oh... come back down real quick, quick, come on hurry!!" Ummmm, please don't do it.  It will wear you out plus it isn't exactly safe. I made it in one piece but dang!  What the heck WAS I thinking?! What was HE thinking!?  The production coordinator said, "I can't believe he made you do that!"
Felt a little like George Jetson.. "Janie... get me off this crazy thing!"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Ooh, sorry to take this a little off-topic but I had to add my own escalator story, also in a casino.
During a show I had to change locations after the opening (guests arriving in limo type stuff) and rush upstairs through the back way to catch the guests coming up to the first floor on the main stairs (very little time)
I actually got stopped by security!
They wanted me to show them my pass, even though I was wearing the Steadicam at the time and trying to get off a moving escalator while the 'regular' casino visitors where trying to get by me.
Director yelling in my ear "What the **** **** ** ********-*****, **** **ck is keeping you! WHERE ARE YOU!".
Some days you just want to go right back to bed....

Anyway, back to topic...what where we talking about again?
Oh yeah, the one hand thing...certainly agree with that, much safer and it raises your confidence level making you feel a little more secure and allowing you to focus on the shot just a little more!
The compromise, to me, is acceptable

Peace, Ruben "Access All Areas, baby!" Sluijter
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