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#1 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 05:03 PM

Switched rental houses and now my camera (B/Steadi) is going to be an Arri 416 Plus. So how have people been flying it and which accessories should I be looking to add?

Camera comes with the low mode bracket (LMS-2). For every day use I was thinking I would fly with the onboard battery and maybe the baseplate to bring it up in weight a bit and make switching from sticks to steadi quick and easy. For running shots, low mode or if I want to use antlers I was thinking I would strip the battery and baseplate. Are yall doing something similar or flying it more bare bones for everyday use?

The two piece bridge plate looks interesting. Looks like I could detach from the rods and hook straight into a baseplate on Steadicam with it. Arri also has a "wedge plate" that can be used instead of a baseplate. Anyone know if this could be used for steadicam mounting or if it is only designed to drop into a tripod quick release?

If I ditch the baseplate will I need the "Steadicam plate" that arri has? Without it it looks like the base only has one screw hole to go into.

Any other advice, tips or tricks when working with this camera? (studio, handheld and steadicam advice all appreciated)

Also I am looking to get a cable to power my modulus from the camera for non steadicam use. Looks like my choices are a single cable to the mini-monitor connector on the IVS or a RS power connector and a BNC(My modulus already has the 24v voltage regulator). The RS cable would be more useful on other cameras which don't have the IVS but since these cameras have so few RS connectors am a little worried that that could be a problem at some point. Also a single cable would be nicer, but are there any disadvantages? Input?

Thanks,
Jess
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#2 Brian Freesh

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 05:34 PM

Where to start...

When purchasing, the camera comes with everything you would "need" for steadicam. Whether or not that means they include it as part of the base price is another issue.

There is indeed only one 3/8 16 screw on the bottom of the camera body, but there are holes for locating pins, whatever size Arri's are.

Stripped down the thing is well within a Flyer's weight range with a prime, clip on, BFD, Modulus, 400' of film. That being under 20lbs, your interest in leaving things on is well founded. Leaving the battery will save your own battery, and leaving the dovetail will save time switching to and from Steadicam. Especially if you get an extra dovetail to leave your mounting plate on.

The two-part base plate I believe is for quick release to hand held, I haven't looked at one in a while though. The rental house will not likely have a spare bottom piece for that, but they will have a spare dovetail, so you might as well not worry about that for quick-switch.

The handle doubles as the low mode mount, so that can just always live on the camera. There is a rosette or two that you can use to ad a rod for F/I/Z if there is a reason you don't want to use rods on the mini-rod bracket. If you do want to use the mini-rod bracket, make sure to get rods for it, as they don't come with the camera.

The "wedge plate" is not something I am familiar with, unless it is an ENG style mounting system like on a F900 or such. I know they have that option for the Alexa, but I don't see that being used in the film world except when necessary.

That's what I can remember off the top of my head, are you getting a prep this time, or still waiting until you get out to LA?
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#3 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 05:46 PM

It is CSC out of Florida so unless they have some sort of facility in Louisiana I am assuming it is all being shipped in.

The two-part base plate I believe is for quick release to hand held, I haven't looked at one in a while though. The rental house will not likely have a spare bottom piece for that, but they will have a spare dovetail, so you might as well not worry about that for quick-switch.

I was looking at the 416 manual and it says that the dovetail that connects the bottom piece to the top is the same as that on the dovetail so I should be able to pull it and then connect the top piece directly to the 2nd dovetail installed on my sled leaving the studio rods, matte box and follow focus behind. That's the theory atleast. Weight wise I could probably keep the rods and studio matte box....

The "wedge plate" is not something I am familiar with, unless it is an ENG style mounting system like on a F900 or such. I know they have that option for the Alexa, but I don't see that being used in the film world except when necessary.

It is just a little piece listed in the manual that may or may not exist in the real world. Basically a minny dovetail plate replacement that drops straight into a head quick release.

Thanks,
Jess
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#4 Brian Freesh

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 06:15 PM

I was looking at the 416 manual and it says that the dovetail that connects the bottom piece to the top is the same as that on the dovetail


I'm not even sure what that says.

To make sure I was on the same page as you, I looked up the terms, we've both been misusing them. From top to bottom: accessory carrier, sled, bridge plate, base plate, wedge plate (usually called a QRP, Quick Release Plate).

The accessory carrier is attached to the bottom of the camera. The sled attaches to that, and the bridge plate to the sled. The bridge plate holds the rods and is theoretically the part you are trying to leave behind, but only if I understand you correctly. To do that you have 2 options:

1) Quick release the sled from the accessory carrier, remove the accessory carrier from the camera, attach your dovetail directly to the bottom of the camera.

2) Quick release the sled from the accessory carrier, slide the bridge plate off the base plate, remove the sled from the bridge plate, attach the sled to a 2nd bridge plate, re-attach the sled to the accessory carrier, slide the 2nd bridge plate (with camera now attached) onto a 2nd base plate that already has your dovetail on the bottom.

What I am suggesting is to simply slide the rods out of the bridge plate (leaving matte box and FF attached), slide the bridge plate off the base plate, slide the bridge plate onto a 2nd base plate that has your dovetail already attached. This only requires you to have one extra piece, and has the quickest and simplest changeover of any configuration.

What I think you want to do would require a second sled, which is the part I'm doubting they will provide, but it's worth asking. In fact, I'd be surprised if they supplied a 2nd bridge plate, but you never know. If you had a 2nd base plate, with a 2nd bridge plate on it, with a 2nd sled on that, you could quick release off the first sled, and attach to the 2nd sled very, very quickly. But you'd need those extra pieces.
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#5 Brian Freesh

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 06:17 PM

incidentally, it looks like the "wedge plate" you are talking about is just a QRP, and therefore not something that will be uniquely useful.
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#6 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 30 May 2010 - 08:50 PM

I believe the only extra piece required to do what I am suggesting is an extra base plate. What you are refering to as the bridge plate and the sled are the same thing.

There are only 3 pieces. The accessory carrier, the sled and the base plate. According to the manual(I think that's where I read it) the dovetail that attached the accessory carrier to the sled is the same dovetail that attaches the sled to the base plate. So I should be able to slide the accessory carrier off of the sled and slide it directly on to the base plate on my steadicam leaving the rods, etc. behind.

~Jess
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#7 Brian Freesh

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 02:32 AM

I believe the only extra piece required to do what I am suggesting is an extra base plate. What you are refering to as the bridge plate and the sled are the same thing.


Nope, the sled is the piece that the bridge plate attaches to. The bridge plate holds the rods. The BP-3 and BP-9 are probably ones you've used before.

There are only 3 pieces. The accessory carrier, the sled and the base plate. According to the manual(I think that's where I read it) the dovetail that attached the accessory carrier to the sled is the same dovetail that attaches the sled to the base plate. So I should be able to slide the accessory carrier off of the sled and slide it directly on to the base plate on my steadicam leaving the rods, etc. behind.

~Jess


I named all the pieces it would take to mount the camera body to a head. The base plate and the bridge plate are two different things. This is why I went to get the terminology you would be reading in the manual. I extremely used to this kind of confusion when working with ACs, as everyone uses different terminology. I never call it a bridge plate either.

After having double checked the manual, it seems my memory was correct. Everything I have told you is true, I think once you see how the mechanism works in person you will understand. It's a bit over-engineered if you ask me, and not clear from the manual. I've worked with the 416 since it was released until last fall, and last took one apart last month. All you need to ask for is a spare 12" base plate. It's very easy to remove the rods with the matte box and FF attached and will not take much time. It will still be much faster than taking the accessory carrier off the camera body and then attaching your rig's dovetail. Otherwise, you will need to ask for a spare base plate, a spare bridge plate, and a spare sled. It is CSC, so it's Arri. They may very well have spares to provide. Most rental houses would not.

Also, the low mode I was thinking of is not the one they mention in the manual. There's that, or there is the regular handle that also has threaded holes. Everyone I know always uses the regular handle cause you don't have to add and remove the handle, and it's smaller.

ETA: I see what you are seeing. I may be partially mistaken, and if so I think I know why (rental house specific) and I'll take my lashings for that. However, the fact that they likely won't have a spare sled to give you (and you would still want a spare base plate, otherwise you are swapping the QRP for your dovetail) is still true. If they have one, perfect!
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#8 Fabian Roesler

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 03:41 AM

Hi,
I just did a movie with the 416. Arri put a lot of thoughts in it to make it steadicam friendly. If you are happy with the clip on matt box (lmb something) you can loose all the wedge and bridge plates and just screw a 416 STEADIPLATE directly to your steadicamplate (cheeseplate, baseplate ???) This 416 STEADIPLATE is an accessory made by Schulz in Munich. It has an Quick release handle so you can easily slide it on and off the body. When took off, you can just slide the camera on the wedge plate (dove tail plate) which is connected to the heads own snap plate by screws. It makes the change from steadicam, to sticks and to hand held set quite fast. You connect your motors either on the 15mm rods connected to the light weight support (which is usually always on the camera, even when using the big Matt box), or use the rosette flange on the right side (looking towards the lense) to connect a tube with a square end. Set up like this, all the stuff can stay on the camera when you change to sticks. Changing is a matter of one minute, even less. I try to post a photo of the plate, if it is not working here is the link to the plate, by Xinetics.
Low mode braket: Arri usually has the specific low mode braket in the package. It is a 2 part bracket, replacing the normal top handle. First part is a common low mode bracket that connects to the top handle mount, where you can screw your cheeseplate on. The second part is another plate with 3 spaecers on the bottom and a handle on the top. You connect it on top of the bracket and the spacers leave enough space for the plate to stay always connected to the Bracket. So while using the camera in every mode but low mode, you can use the top handle to carry the camera, while your cheeseplate stays with the camera all the time, and when changing to low mode, you just take off the top part of the Bracket and voila, you slide on your camera upside dowm on your cheeseplate and the change is done. Matt box and motors are still there, no further changes needed.
It is quit light weight. So if you want more weight on it just use the on board battery. The big advantage of the steadyplate is the reduction of the distance between gimbal and Camera c.g.. so the sled doesn´t have to be that long. The low mode bracket, the light weight support, and the rod with the square end should be in the package, or be at least available in your rentral house.
I don´t know if everything is understandable, i trie to find a photo of the bracket and post it.
Cheers
Fabian

Check this guide on page 16 and 17 with pictures of the bracket, but not the steadicamplate i am talking about. The schulz one is much better and faster to change because it`s tool free.
refering to the descriptions in the manuall. For the best set up( in my opinion) just leave the Accessory Carrier on the camera, loose the wedge plate, keep the Base plate connected to the head, and slide the Schulz Steadicamplate on the Camera
http://www.arricsc.c...Guide120407.pdf

link to STEADIPLATE: http://www.xinetix.d...416-steadyplate
Schulz: Telephone: 89 72459700
Fax: 89 72459701
Mobile: 171 5328000
International Dialling Code: +49

P.S: I am not working for Schulz, it is just a great product...
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#9 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 05:17 AM

Look at the diagram on page 16 of the 416 quick guide and what I was saying will make a lot more sense. The diagram shows it working how I want it to (arrow going directly from accessory carrier to base plate). The manual on the other hand does not mention this ability at all.

The wedge plate I mentioned is also pictured there. My comment about it before was due to my thought that if they happened to have put threaded holes in the bottom of it that it could be used instead of the base plate to attach to Steadicam.

~Jess
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#10 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 05:21 AM

Thanks for the info Fabian. Looks like you beat me to pointing out what I was talking about. Looks like that Steadiplate they make is exactly what I was secretly hoping the wedge plate would be. Don't really need it as most of the time I won't mind the extra weight of a base plate.

~Jess
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#11 Brian Freesh

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 12:15 PM

Aha!

Yes, I see the light. Reluctantly I admit I didn't know it could do that. And now that I know, I've deciphered your above mad ramblings. As to the "wedge plate," they called a QRP a "wedge plate" in the manual, so I mistakenly thought that's what you were talking about, and thus continued to think of your ramblings as mad. Yeah, as far as how you'd be using the wedge plate, as just a short base plate, the weight difference between that and a base plate would be minimal, unless they give you an old heavy base plate. The height would be the same either way, so just go with what you prefer there.

The power/vid cable for Modulus is a fine option, I've not heard of problems with it, but maybe someone else can shed some light on that, as I've run into very few people that use it for modulus. ACs love it for on-board monitors. CSC should have some RS splitters though, so if you want to go that route you shouldn't run out of places to plug things in.

Enjoy the camera. Have your ACs change the color of the arriglow for giggles.
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#12 Fabian Roesler

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 02:31 PM

Hi Jess,
i remember now why, in our configuration, we couldn´t connect the base plate directly to the camera. When you use the light weight support (in the manual its called LWS 5) you don´t have a flat bottom (ähhh) on the camera any more. The openings to hold the 15mm rods will stick out a little bit, so you are not able to screw your cheeseplate or the baseplate to the body directly. When you attach this 416 Steadicamplate the bottom is on one level again and you can screw on whatever you want.
cheers
Fabian
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#13 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 05:02 PM

OMG I've never seen so much discussion for a 16mm camera. This is Steadicam 101. Nothing could be simpler, just slap a steadi dovetail plate on the bottom and your only decision should be to fly the on-board battery or not and ask for a clip on matte box. It's not like the complications that come with all the different digital cameras out there. I'd be so happy to fly that camera.
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#14 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 07:12 PM

OMG I've never seen so much discussion for a 16mm camera. This is Steadicam 101. Nothing could be simpler, just slap a steadi dovetail plate on the bottom and your only decision should be to fly the on-board battery or not and ask for a clip on matte box. It's not like the complications that come with all the different digital cameras out there. I'd be so happy to fly that camera.



You echo my thoughts exactly. It's a freaking camera, order the Steadicam parts and be done with it
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#15 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 31 May 2010 - 08:24 PM

HAHA. I was thinking how ridiculous this was myself. Trust me, I am extremely happy to be flying this camera. In almost any mode with almost any accessories it is a dream compared to most of the digital monsters out there.
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