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PRO 2 with F35/Genesis power issues


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#1 Michael Stumpf

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 02:05 PM

I know others have had similiar problems that I have experienced when flying the F35 and or Genesis and using the Y cable to power the cameras with Dionic HC's

As other threads have pointed out, when using the Dionics and the why cable resulted in all the power being drawn from the bottom battery when in 12V mode and a flashing battery on the top position in 24V mode.
Neither was acceptable.

The "fix" was to put Diodes in the Anton Bauer gold mount plates.
Well I did that several weeks ago and it did not "fix" the issue.

So before my show 2 days ago I went in to GPI and Jack and I spent the better part of two hours trying to figure out how we can really solve this issue.

After much testing we could not figure out what the deal was.
Then Jack had one last idea, let's change the jumper block.
Instead of the usual Camera power on bottom and Aux on top, we plugged in a
dual 12V camera jumper block.
Then using a Y cable that instead of split from one camera power port and the Aux power port, we used a Y Cable that was a twin Camera Power.

And voila, no issues. Jack and I solved problem
And on my show last night, I powered the Genesis (without the deck) for 1/2 hour or more and my Dionic 90 HC's weren't even 1/2 drained. They were draining equally from top and bottom batteries.

So in short, for F23/35 and Genesis powering with the Dionic 90 HC's get a 12V dual Camera power jumper block from GPI ($250) your problem is solved.
**Note, you may also need to use a Y cable that comes out of the two Camera Power ports in the upper junction box as I did, not sure if the Y cable that splits 1 power from Camera and 1 from Aux will work. It should, but in my case I used a Y cable that splits out of the two Camera Power ports in the upper junction box. And that's how I'll do it from now on.

Cheers
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#2 Fabrizio Sciarra SOC ACO

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 02:39 PM

Thanks for sharing!
Fabrizio
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#3 Iain Baird

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 03:31 PM

The problem I see with this solution is that the entire amperage draw is going through the one CAM cable run up the post instead of sharing between two runs. I won't dispute your success, that's the goal after all, but my diodes seem to work perfectly with a PRO II base and by having the 'Y' cable into AUX and CAM you split the amp load between the runs.

Iain
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#4 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 08:11 PM

I was thinking the same thing as Ian pointed out. Perhaps someone at GPI could chime in and give an opinion as to whether the aux comes into play with that block. I've had that block for years, as that is what GPI originally came up with for the Genesis, but I remember someone saying there was a problem with it.
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#5 RonBaldwin

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 01:50 AM

Michael, do you have the newer post/j-box or the original? Obviously you must have been having issues while flying with the deck -- I haven't flown with the deck yet and I hope I never have to. I just plugged it in for a while when I first got the hd sled and cables made to see if/how long it would work (it's interesting to see the voltage change on the camera display depending on the connector or cable used).

I haven't had the flashy battery thing since adding the diodes (knock on wood).
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#6 Michael Stumpf

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 09:46 AM

Michael, do you have the newer post/j-box or the original? Obviously you must have been having issues while flying with the deck -- I haven't flown with the deck yet and I hope I never have to. I just plugged it in for a while when I first got the hd sled and cables made to see if/how long it would work (it's interesting to see the voltage change on the camera display depending on the connector or cable used).

I haven't had the flashy battery thing since adding the diodes (knock on wood).



Hey all thanks for the replies.
I don't know if it was just that diodes in my AB gold mounts were put in wrong (they were put in by Terry West) but obviously he's quite a knowledgeable man when it comes to wiring. So maybe there is a way for me to double check it.
But even with the diodes, I'd still get the flashing battery.

The weird thing is, I used the F35 for the first time on the pilot of "Miami Medical" back in April 2009. I had to fly the deck and everything else (IDX HD transmitter). I did not have any issues. I flew the IDX Powercubes with the normal Camera/Aux jumper block.

I did not have to fly the F35 again until last month. But I tried my new Dionic 90 HC batts and got the flashing.
I also then tried two IDX powercubes and it would only draw power from the bottom powercube.
Would there be any issue in running one powercube on the camera power and one Dionic HC on the top Aux power? I tried that too, and the powercube would drain and the top HC would not?
I had Panavision give me 2 different Y cables and tried there's instead of mine and it did the same thing.

I have the PRO2 base without the HD. I won't get that base until I get an HD monitor and until the HD monitors are a bit better and get closer to the TB-6 I'll wait a bit longer.

Oh and Ron, I was flying the SSR deck on the one pilot (and the SRW once when we needed 50 fps).
One the second pilot they "couldn't afford" the SSR deck so I went with the deck off and wired to it.

Interesting points about the amperage coming from one cable. I'm not a electrical wizard, but I would think Jack would of worried if that was an issue. Again, I'm still using the Y cable, it's just spilt between the two Camera power ports instead of one camera power, one aux power.
I'll give Jack a call and see if I should be concerned about the amperage draw with this set up now for my next F35 job.

Any way to check my diodes to see if they were wired in correctly, or if they didn't break or something after Terry put the gold mount covers back on?
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#7 RonBaldwin

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 11:41 AM

my understanding of electronics is basic as well...but since the diodes are there to prevent reverse voltage, I think if it was wired backwards you'd get no power at all? Maybe that's the issue with the aux batt not sharing the load?

rb
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#8 Michael Stumpf

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Posted 09 April 2010 - 06:58 PM

my understanding of electronics is basic as well...but since the diodes are there to prevent reverse voltage, I think if it was wired backwards you'd get no power at all? Maybe that's the issue with the aux batt not sharing the load?

rb


So you think maybe the diode on the aux side is wired backward and that's why it's not sharing the load, but rather just feeding off of the camera power side?
I'd love to not have to change the jumper block each time I use the F23/35/Genesis.
guess I might have to drive back down to Terry and have him double check. But again, I swear he did and like you said, if the diodes were wired wrong, I'd think there would be no power at all.
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#9 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 12:36 AM

my understanding of electronics is basic as well...but since the diodes are there to prevent reverse voltage, I think if it was wired backwards you'd get no power at all? Maybe that's the issue with the aux batt not sharing the load?

rb


So you think maybe the diode on the aux side is wired backward and that's why it's not sharing the load, but rather just feeding off of the camera power side?
I'd love to not have to change the jumper block each time I use the F23/35/Genesis.
guess I might have to drive back down to Terry and have him double check. But again, I swear he did and like you said, if the diodes were wired wrong, I'd think there would be no power at all.


Michael, put a battery on the Aux plate only, depress the breaker and put a multimeter on the aux pins on the top stage (1+12v, 2 ground). That should tell you if you are even getting power out of that battery. Jack hasn't warned you because they do not have a solution in the non-digital post cable for the undersized wire load capacity. It's probably OK but with too many accessories you may run the risk of melting a wire. The dual battery cable deals with the problem of the under-rated lemo connectors.
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#10 Michael Stumpf

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 11:21 PM

Michael, put a battery on the Aux plate only, depress the breaker and put a multimeter on the aux pins on the top stage (1+12v, 2 ground). That should tell you if you are even getting power out of that battery. Jack hasn't warned you because they do not have a solution in the non-digital post cable for the undersized wire load capacity. It's probably OK but with too many accessories you may run the risk of melting a wire. The dual battery cable deals with the problem of the under-rated lemo connectors.



I believe Jack tried everything for me. I was getting power out of every port as I should of. I watched him and we checked and double checked.
He put a volt meter on every pin from all ports in the upper J-box and I was getting the power I was supposed too. He verified that and said nothing wrong there.
We had a Dionic 90 on both top and bottom Camera and Aux plates, depressed the breakers and tested it.
I got the 12 volts I was supposed to out of every port (actually 15.2-15.3 volts).

Then we plugged in the Y cable that had one lemo for the camera power and one lemo for the aux.
If we plugged in one side of the Y cable all was fine, but the second we plugged in the Aux side, the top (Aux) batteries meter would start blinking.
The second we unplugged one side of Y cable it would stop blinking.

So I'm not sure what the heck was going on, and Jack couldn't figure it out either.
I thought it was the Y cable I had made from Terry West, but we tested it too and individually power was coming from each lemo as it was supposed too.
And on top of that, I got 2 "Y" cables from Panavision too, just in case, and they had the same issue, so it wasn't the cables.

So again, we changed out the usual Y cable with one three pin camera power lemo and one two pin Aux lemo connector to 2 three pin Camera power lemo connectors, so I could use the right two power ports in the upper junction box.
With that I still got the blinking top battery.
The only thing that stopped it was the dual camera jumper block.

I'm now concerned about melting a wire, if running an F23/35/Genesis with SSR deck, wireless HD transmitter and Cinetape, along with my Preston.

If my diodes were wired wrong, would that be the problem, or would the batteries and upper junction box power not work if they were?
Should I get a usual "Y" cable with one 3 pin lemo and one 2 pin lemo again and go back to the normal jumper block and try to solve the blinking battery issue some other way?

Thanks again for the help guys.
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#11 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 11 April 2010 - 11:29 AM

A diode only lets current pass through in one direction. Sounds like they were installed correctly. Can't you get George involved at GPI? Not sure Jack has the electrical engineering background to figure this one out. I'm curious if the same result happens with their new digital post and J-box?
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#12 Michael Stumpf

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 12:04 AM

A diode only lets current pass through in one direction. Sounds like they were installed correctly. Can't you get George involved at GPI? Not sure Jack has the electrical engineering background to figure this one out. I'm curious if the same result happens with their new digital post and J-box?


George was out sick at the time.
I'll have to swing by GPI and see if George can take a look see and test it.
Thanks for the heads up on the Diodes. Guess if that's true, I'd get no power whatsoever if they were installed incorrectly correct?
Weird, cuz if they were installed correctly wonder why that wasn't solving my "draining from just the camera battery only issue."
Hopefully George can figure it out, otherwise I have a Y cable with twin camera power (dual 12V) that I will fear may fry the centerpost cable now if I
draw to much current.
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#13 RonBaldwin

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 08:34 AM

I hope you get it all worked out. I agree with Doc about checking the pins...or popping off the jumper block and testing the banana plugs against the schematics. Pretty wierd though.

I mentioned earlier that Terry put the diodes in mine -- to update, still working great and no flashy battery meters anymore. I've flown nothing but the f-35 or genesis for the last 2 months (only once with deck), no issues except the camera/deck combo sucking my hc's dry like my 6 yr old sucking a juice box inside-out!

rb
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#14 RonBaldwin

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Posted 20 April 2010 - 08:39 AM

I hope you get it all worked out. I agree with Doc about checking the pins...or popping off the jumper block and testing the banana plugs against the schematics. Pretty wierd though.

I mentioned earlier that Terry put the diodes in mine -- to update, still working great and no flashy battery meters anymore. I've flown nothing but the f-35 or genesis for the last 2 months (only once with deck), no issues except the camera/deck combo sucking my hc's dry like my 6 yr old sucking a juice box inside-out!

rb
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#15 Michael Stumpf

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 02:03 AM

I hope you get it all worked out. I agree with Doc about checking the pins...or popping off the jumper block and testing the banana plugs against the schematics. Pretty wierd though.

I mentioned earlier that Terry put the diodes in mine -- to update, still working great and no flashy battery meters anymore. I've flown nothing but the f-35 or genesis for the last 2 months (only once with deck), no issues except the camera/deck combo sucking my hc's dry like my 6 yr old sucking a juice box inside-out!

rb


I'll check them again, but like I stated, I watched Jack check every pin in every possible configuration and it showed the exact power I was suppose too.
Like everything was working, A-okay.
But as soon as we plugged in the Y cable (1 into camera power, 1 into Aux power) the top Aux battery would start to flash, and this was without a load on it (no camera, nothing).

But if the diodes are wired incorrectly there should be no power correct?
Is it possible the diodes just aren't working at all even though they are wired in to the gold mount plates?
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