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Dionic HC's on XCS sled


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#1 brooksrobinson

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 01:36 PM

It’s almost time to update my batteries. My current setup has me with two Dionic 90’s in the rear, and a Trimpac underneath the post on my XCS sled. The thinking behind this setup was to make sure I could run a 435 high speed (hence the Trimpac), but also have enough juice to run power-hungry HD cameras. Since the Anton Bauer Dionic HC’s are now out and about, I’m wondering if any XCS sled owners have flown them – preferably in all three positions, and have an opinion. I still need to be able to run a 435 at speed, but would like the added power of the all three batteries being Dionic for HD work. Will the HC’s allow me to crank a 435 at 150fps with the XCS? Are there any reasons not to go with Dionic HC’s in all three positions? Thanks in advance for the help.

Sincerely,

Brooks Robinson
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#2 RonBaldwin

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 02:02 PM

Hi Brooks,
I'm curious as well...just picked up a half dozen and haven't used them on a job yet. Paul Dudek said their lifespan will be longer than the d-90's btw.

I'm also interesred how they sit side to side on different sleds. They mount slightly different than the d-90 -- I know that is easily solved with Greg's lower x/y, but since they physically stick out about 1/4" more on the right side it may cause spin balance probs on most sleds as well as less leg clearance.
rb
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#3 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 23 January 2010 - 02:29 PM

All the posts I read here re the XCS sled extoll the virtues of the power management system built in to it. Why worry about a 435 with the all the voltage regulators?
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#4 brooksrobinson

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:19 PM

Doc,

The XCS will run a 435 on one NiCad battery, but not a Dionic. I believe this is due to the rather large spike upon start-up, which doesn’t agree with the Dionic batteries. Here is a far more eloquent than I can muster Steadicam Forum quote from Will Arnot responding to my question three years ago when I was seeking advice on new batteries for my XCS:

“Now I go with 2 Dionic 90's Li Ion, and 1 Proformer NiCad. It is a little heavier set up, but the trade off in run time is astounding. The Dionics run well into double digit mag count - but the key is the 1 NiCad mixed in. The Lithium Ions are prone to shut down or pop their breaker if a high enough current is demanded ( 435) NiCads are still unique in their ability to deliver on huge amperage demand, albeit for a short amount of time. So as long as you have 1 NiCad in the mix, you won't have any trouble with any of the film cameras.”

And another quote from Simon Jayes:

“435: I use two Dionics and one Proformer (without which the Dionics will shut down). This works great and powers the camera for a long time.”

I am hoping that the Dionic HC’s are capable of turning a 435 without needing a NiCad battery in the mix. Does anyone have any experience running a 435 at high speed fueled only with Dionic HC’s – especially on an XCS Ultimate sled? I’d really like to stick to one battery type if possible, but I certainly don’t want to short change myself either. Thanks in advance for any advice.

Sincerely,

Brooks Robinson
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#5 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 01:48 PM

I am hoping that the Dionic HC’s are capable of turning a 435 without needing a NiCad battery in the mix. Does anyone have any experience running a 435 at high speed fueled only with Dionic HC’s – especially on an XCS Ultimate sled? I’d really like to stick to one battery type if possible, but I certainly don’t want to short change myself either. Thanks in advance for any advice.



It all depends on the protection board built into the HC's. The reason that the Dionics shutdown is that the 435 needs a 20amp current spike to start the camera and the dionics have a 10 or 12 amp safety limit in them iirc.
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#6 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 24 January 2010 - 11:18 PM

Brooks, thanks for the explanation. I fear the days of 435/film cameras are numbered now. Best to prepare for a future of digital with the Dionic HC's and keep a few proformers around just in case.
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#7 brooksrobinson

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:15 PM

I’m going to be sending off an email to Paul Dudeck at Anton Bauer for some clarification, but I’d love to hear if anyone out there has had any real world experience with the Dionic HC’s and the Arriflex 435. As mentioned in a prior post, I’d love to keep it to one battery type and chemistry if at all possible, but I’d love to hear from those with experience before taking the plunge. Thank you for your assistance.

Sincerely,

Brooks Robinson
brooksontheroad@pacbell.net
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#8 RonBaldwin

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 12:33 PM

Hey Brooks, if you get a chance, ask Paul how he thinks the hc's in a hotswap (doubling the amperage) or using 2 dionic 160's (12.5 amps each) would be affected under such a high demand.

I guess no one using the hc's (without a lower x/y) seems to notice any difference in the way they mount off-center?

Ron
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#9 JobScholtze

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:44 PM

Hey Brooks, if you get a chance, ask Paul how he thinks the hc's in a hotswap (doubling the amperage) or using 2 dionic 160's (12.5 amps each) would be affected under such a high demand.

I guess no one using the hc's (without a lower x/y) seems to notice any difference in the way they mount off-center?

Ron

I am pretty sure the dionic 90 mounts off-center more then the new HC's do.
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#10 RonBaldwin

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 03:56 PM

I probably have it backwards, I'm new to the ab world. Anyways, sleds set up for the h-50/d-90 vs the hc/h-140/d-160/others (?) may have issues when switching from one to the other. Seems anton bauer made them differently as far as how they sit in the mount.
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#11 brooksrobinson

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 04:49 PM

I heard back from Paul Dudeck at Anton Bauer and wanted to report what I learned.

“The HC's can handle peak loads up to 20amps and 10amp constant loads, so you should have absolutely no problems with HC's on an F23/35, RED, ARRI 435, etc. They are made for these high current draws, so you can simplify your package.
Regards,
Paul”

The good news for me is that I no longer need to carry my trusty Trimpacs to Arriflex jobs, and will be able to rely solely on the HC’s. Thanks to Paul for clearing that up, and to all that voiced an opinion.

Sincerely,

Brooks Robinson
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#12 Jerry Franck

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 06:54 PM

I heard back from Paul Dudeck at Anton Bauer and wanted to report what I learned.

“The HC's can handle peak loads up to 20amps and 10amp constant loads, so you should have absolutely no problems with HC's on an F23/35, RED, ARRI 435, etc. They are made for these high current draws, so you can simplify your package.
Regards,
Paul”

The good news for me is that I no longer need to carry my trusty Trimpacs to Arriflex jobs, and will be able to rely solely on the HC’s. Thanks to Paul for clearing that up, and to all that voiced an opinion.

Sincerely,

Brooks Robinson


Thanks for sharing this brooks,
Finally a great sum up in one sentence about the amp question for the hc's.

Now, since you said you own trimpacs too I wanted to ask you how they hold up with a 435 at 150fps?
I recently bought those for some film jobs mainly with bl's. So was wondering if I would be covered with those on a 435 job as well.

Best,
Jerry.
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#13 brooksrobinson

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 08:33 PM

Jerry,

I am probably the wrong person to ask as I’ve only used the Trimpacs in conjunction with Dionic 90’s (one Trimpac and two Dionics at once) on my XCS sled – never by themselves. I’m guessing the Trimpacs would run a 435 at speed without issue, I just don’t know for how long. I’m sure others that have used Trimpacs exclusively will chime in with their experiences. Sorry I couldn’t be of more assistance with this.

Brooks
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#14 Jerry Franck

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Posted 26 January 2010 - 10:33 PM

Jerry,

I am probably the wrong person to ask as I’ve only used the Trimpacs in conjunction with Dionic 90’s (one Trimpac and two Dionics at once) on my XCS sled – never by themselves. I’m guessing the Trimpacs would run a 435 at speed without issue, I just don’t know for how long. I’m sure others that have used Trimpacs exclusively will chime in with their experiences. Sorry I couldn’t be of more assistance with this.

Brooks


Brooks,

actually that's how I plan on using them: one trim (for camera) and two 90's for rest. So, no worries, actually this helped assuring me that others used them in the same combination with good results... ;)

let us know how the HC's do once you've flown them a bit...

Jerry
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#15 Matt Petrosky

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 02:01 AM

Brooks,

So you got the Dionic HC's? Thoughts?

I realize I'm a little late to this, but I did a job last year where we shot with a 435 at 120fps pretty much all day, mag after mag (actually there was a little 60fps in there too). I have a PRO and was running three Dionic HC's (one for the monitor), and they really impressed me. Not only did they have zero problems, but I only changed the batteries out once or maybe twice in the morning madness and the same for the afternoon. Quite an improvement over my old HyTron's and Proformers.

Ron, I haven't balanced them to quantify the side-to-side weight difference as compared to a Dionic 90 or HyTron 50, but they certainly don't stick out enough on either side to bother me or hinder operating. And the Steadicam Gods smile favorably as dynamic balance is still achievable.

-Matt
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