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using the Red with the Steadicam Flyer


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#1 steve sterling

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Posted 09 January 2010 - 02:14 PM

does anyone know if it is at all possible to power the Red with the on board power supply of the Flyer?
And what connections do I need to operate my on board monitor with the Red?
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#2 Markus Rave

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 04:30 AM

Red needs 12 Volts and draws about 80 Watts. Should be possible for a while. I just donĀ“t think the Flyer has enough capacitiy weightwise with just 19lbs payload.
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#3 Brian Freesh

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 11:49 AM

It is plenty possible to power the Red through the Flyer, how long it will last will depend on what batteries you are using. I own Hytron 50s which would maybe get me 30 minutes per battery if nothing else was being powered. So I stick a v-mount adapter on there and use the Red Brick batteries on my sled. Works like a charm. You'll need a cable that goes from the Flyer to the Red, which I think are available, or you can have one custom made. I think the Flyer and the Flyer LE power outs are different pin configs? Someone correct me on that one.

Assuming you don't have the HD monitor on your Flyer, you need a downconverter to get video to your monitor. But first you need an HDSDI BNC connector from the Red. Most, if not all Reds these days have the video breakout box that adapts the Red proprietary connectors to BNCs, but it doesn't hurt to check ahead of time. The popular downconverter these days is the Decimator. Very simple to use, inexpensive, and gets what you need. But you could also buy/rent another onboard downconverter. Powering the downconverter will be another issue, if you have only one power output from your rig. I've had a breakout box with 4 outputs added to my rig. You may need to do something similar, or get a cable that can get power from the Red. Same for follow focus. You can talk to Charles Papert here on the forum about about purchase (and I believe rental) of a Decimator, but you may also be able to find someone in your area to rent from.

As for weight capacity, it can certainly be done, but the camera must be stripped down to bare bones. If you have a Flyer, your official weight limit is 15lbs, if a Flyer LE, then 19lbs. I have a Flyer (2nd generation) and have found that a few pounds over weight to be acceptable. The problem being strain on the gimbal, not ability to balance or weight on the arm. That being the case, you can get the weight of the Red down to around 17-18lbs. That's Red body, prime lens (Zeiss speeds or similar weight), BFD, Decimator, clip on matte-box, recording to CF cards. Add the one Red battery to the bottom of the rig and you're right around that 19lb mark.

However, it's extremely important to be clear with production what you need to make it happen with your rig. I like to do it through email so there's proof I said it, and i like to tell at minimum the DP and producer/UPM. That way there can be no confusion, and if I'm told through email that it is fine, I have proof if I show up to set and they say, "by the way, we want you to use this raid drive and zoom lens." So far I have not had any problems, but you'd hate to just say yes, then find out they only have a raid drive.

Any weight over the items I listed may be possible depending on your arm (mine takes a lot of weight for a Flyer arm) but you're taking the safety of your gimbal into your own hands. I personally won't go more than 20lbs (including battery).

Good luck, don't do it if it won't work!
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#4 Peter Hoare

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Posted 14 January 2010 - 08:41 PM

It is entirely possible.... Just.


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The camera is powered off the sled (RED brick on the bottom plate). Tiffen make a RED power cable, kindly let to me by Ed Moore. This cable is a 3pin 0B Lemo, and the Flyer had a 2pin, so I had to take the 2pin out and replace it for a three pin. After that, it powered right up no problems.

We also had a Redbyte downcoverter on the rig (also kindly supplied by Ed). We didn't have the power cable for it, so I built a simple 4aa battery box power supply for the downconverter which worked fine.

We were shooting a live event, and we could not record to flash cards, so I opted to mount a red drive ontop of the camera body using wire ties. Not pretty i know, but it was secure and it kept all the weight over the post, and got rid of the big heavy red cage.

The lens is a ligthweight Nikon, and a light weight remote focus.


Worked well in the end, the arm could just take it, and it did not max out or damage the system.

Its the second time I had flown RED, the first time was an absolute nightmare, had red cradles and monitors hanging off it, and it was a horrible rig to fly. This time, the Diet red behaved quite nicely on the small Flyer.


Pete.
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#5 TJ Williams

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:44 AM

Std power cable on flyer is 4pin XLR 1/4 cine 60 wiring (like for into a video camera 12V) if you have a power cable for xlr just plug right in!!!

good idea to use Birger mount for this application since the wireless lens control is lighter than BFD or similiar.
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#6 Brian Freesh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 02:00 PM

It is entirely possible.... Just.


Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

The camera is powered off the sled (RED brick on the bottom plate). Tiffen make a RED power cable, kindly let to me by Ed Moore. This cable is a 3pin 0B Lemo, and the Flyer had a 2pin, so I had to take the 2pin out and replace it for a three pin. After that, it powered right up no problems.

We also had a Redbyte downcoverter on the rig (also kindly supplied by Ed). We didn't have the power cable for it, so I built a simple 4aa battery box power supply for the downconverter which worked fine.

We were shooting a live event, and we could not record to flash cards, so I opted to mount a red drive ontop of the camera body using wire ties. Not pretty i know, but it was secure and it kept all the weight over the post, and got rid of the big heavy red cage.

The lens is a ligthweight Nikon, and a light weight remote focus.


Worked well in the end, the arm could just take it, and it did not max out or damage the system.

Its the second time I had flown RED, the first time was an absolute nightmare, had red cradles and monitors hanging off it, and it was a horrible rig to fly. This time, the Diet red behaved quite nicely on the small Flyer.


Pete.


Pete, great idea Re: placement of the Raid drive. I hope it was super secure! I wonder if there was much heat transferring from the camera to the drive and if that could potentially cause any problems. Obviously it didn't for you, which is awesome! The Red's heat vents (stupidly) being on the bottom of the camera would've helped avoid that I suppose. I imagine your set-up there is around the same weight as the one I described, if not a tad heavier due to the drive. I've got wireless audio coming for the first time on my next gig, so definitely no raid drive, but maybe on another non-sync sound gig. I'll take a picture of the audio set-up, weigh it and report back.

Re: it didn't damage the system: unfortunately, there's no way to know for sure to the naked eye. I agree you were probably within tolerances (and probably the rig is fine), but every time we go over 15lbs we risk the extra strain on the rig causing failure. I can balance and fly a 24lb camera (and batt) set-up beautifully, but I'd hate to be in the middle of a shot when my gimbal stops spinning because something got bent! I go up to, but not over 20lbs, and I still try to keep it as far below that as possible (down to 15lbs anyway).

On the other hand, every time we use it (heck, even when we don't) we're causing wear and tear on the rig. If we use it enough, eventually it will fail no matter what, whether that's a month, a year, or a hundred years. So maybe it's not worth the concern... Just call me a worry wart!

TJ, re: the cable that comes with the Flyer. That's an excellent point, and in fact i did that on my first Red shoot. I was, however using an 8' long, thick gauge cable plugged into my Flyer cable, and while it was easy enough to wrangle, it did add extra weight. Not enough to be an issue considering how stripped the camera was, but it should be taken into account, and if a shorter cable can be used, it should be.
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#7 Peter Hoare

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Posted 18 January 2010 - 09:55 PM

Posted Image


ARGHHHHHH :blink:
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#8 Simon Wyndham

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:01 AM

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ARGHHHHHH :blink:


Hmmm. Hopefully Scarlett won't be made in an iron forge like its predecessor! ;) Is the arm sagging under the weight in that shot?
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#9 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 01:12 PM

Posted Image


ARGHHHHHH :blink:



Is that supposed to be heavy?
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#10 Henry Gelhart

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 08:12 PM

Is that supposed to be heavy?


:) (The Genesis still hurts)
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#11 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 19 January 2010 - 11:27 PM

Is that supposed to be heavy?


:) (The Genesis still hurts)



Tell me about it, I'm getting ready to do a F23 WITH the toaster in one piece mode... Hello 102lbs....
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#12 Peter Hoare

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Posted 21 January 2010 - 10:06 PM

The arm was on its strongest setting but it still floated just about. The shot was 120fps and was a pretty simple move (just circling round a couple dancing) and the end result looked pretty good. Would never fly it like this again, the setup earlier on in this thread with the power cable and the redbyte is the way to go if you have to fit a RED on a flyer.
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#13 Henry Gelhart

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 02:45 PM

Tell me about it, I'm getting ready to do a F23 WITH the toaster in one piece mode... Hello 102lbs....


Oh gosh... 102lbs is really messed up! How do you manage it with your PRO arm?
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#14 RonBaldwin

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 02:58 PM

I'd imagine Eric is including the wt of everything (arm, vest, sled, onboard expresso maker, betty crocker easy-bake oven, etc...).

Ron
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#15 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 22 January 2010 - 03:18 PM

I'd imagine Eric is including the wt of everything (arm, vest, sled, onboard expresso maker, betty crocker easy-bake oven, etc...).

Ron



Yup that's everything, suit, arm, sled and payload
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