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Just wanted to get some advice on building my first "bigger" rig


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#1 Kelli Lee

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 01:22 AM

Hi all,

I've been scouring the forums and different sites (Tiffen, Sachtler, Pro etc) and am beginning to think about which manufacturer(s) to go with to build my first big rig.

I will be shooting a 24 day feature starting in April on the Red One. And have about 4 other features shooting consecutively starting in spring.

The feature in April is high action and has a music video feel to it, lots of unconventional camera moves (rolls etc.)

Budget is very much an issue (when is it not?). Unfortunately I'm fairly new to the game, but I am confident I can more than pay off the rig once I get it.

I have received numerous calls for steadicam, but I have to almost always pass of the work to another operator because the rig I currently have can only handle about 10lbs worth of camera. I need to handle at least a built out Red with mattebox and an Ultra Prime, averaging around 30lbs.

I looked at the Archer, but am a little nervous about its weight max of 30lbs. Can I just upgrade my arm? Or does weight affect which sled I use as well? Within reason of course, no Pilot sleds here :)

I'm looking for a sled that has both 12 and 24v capacity. Was looking at the Artemis Cine HD. I really like the hot swappable battery feature and the fact that there's very little power loss when power goes from the battery to the camera. Great for power sucking beasts like the Red.

I'm really just leaning toward the Artemis system, and perhaps getting a Tiffen vest later. I really like the 28k price tag, HD monitor and 57lb weight limit of the Artemis. Anyone have good/bad experience with this?

I have gotten a chance to fly an Artemis, Ultra 2 and Archer (thank you steadicam workshop!) and I really love all three. Unfortunately the Steadicam's price tag is kinda scaring me off and that's not including an HD monitor!

Or maybe it should just be a custom build? My configuration go something like this?

Ultra 2 vest (I can't seem to locate price on Tiffen's site, but I do love the industrial quality)
Artemis Cine HD Sled (need to check with Sachtler on the weight capacity on this one)
Sachtler Act 2 arm (57lbs capacity, enough said)

I apologize for the long winded post. Thanks in advance for your help!
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#2 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 02:04 AM

This was just talked about in the last two weeks.

Maybe you could use the search function?
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#3 Kelli Lee

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 01:04 PM

This was just talked about in the last two weeks.

Maybe you could use the search function?



Trust me I did. The search engine has been used quite a bit, but unfortunately, a lot of the information I found regarding the Artemis (the system I'm really looking at) was several years old.

Just wanted a fresh perspective :)
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#4 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 03:47 PM

This was just talked about in the last two weeks.

Maybe you could use the search function?



Trust me I did. The search engine has been used quite a bit, but unfortunately, a lot of the information I found regarding the Artemis (the system I'm really looking at) was several years old.

Just wanted a fresh perspective :)



Well, if you look around at what's been posted in the last two weeks or so you'd find plenty of info
Here

and Here

Digging down and reading the archives can be very insightful
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#5 Brian Freesh

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 06:13 PM

Jade,

Eric's links should help a lot for info on the options other than Sachtler. If that's the only rig you're "really" looking at though, there's probably no point taking the time. If you're open to the other options, I highly recommend pouring through both the threads he linked. As for the Artemis, you won't likely find a lot of info here new or old as things like that, Glidecam, Actioncam, etc... tend not to be used in the same market most of the people here work in. They're may be other forums that have more experience with those rigs in general, and maybe the Artemis specifically. I do know someone that was pleasantly surprised with the Artemis at a trade show. Obviously she only flew it for a few minutes, but I'll point her to this thread if she thinks she has useful input.

Honestly, since you're looking for advice on your first "bigger" rig, the best advice you're gonna find here is in those two links (and more about other rigs in other discussion threads), and there's a reason the Artemis isn't included in those threads.


Brian |-)~
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#6 Kelli Lee

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:39 PM

Thanks Eric and Brian,

I checked out the links and I'm surprised I didn't find the latter one sooner. It really helped a lot.

Brian, quick question regarding when you said "there's a reason the Artemis isn't mentioned". Specifically, what's the reason?
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#7 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 13 December 2009 - 11:56 PM

Thanks Eric and Brian,

I checked out the links and I'm surprised I didn't find the latter one sooner. It really helped a lot.

Brian, quick question regarding when you said "there's a reason the Artemis isn't mentioned". Specifically, what's the reason?



Look around and see what rigs are being used on what jobs and where.

It's also better to "shop local" and know who you are dealing with for service and how good their service is
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#8 Erwin Landau

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 04:43 AM

Hi Kelli,

Not sure where the problem was, either put in Artemis or the manufacturer Sachtler and I found a bunch without trying... or even just go to sleds and you should find more then enough...

Artemis:

http://www.steadicam...?showtopic=9463
http://www.steadicam...?showtopic=1935
http://www.steadicam...?showtopic=7444
http://www.steadicam...?showtopic=7214
http://www.steadicam...p?showtopic=129



Other stuff:

http://www.steadicam...?showtopic=6117
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#9 Benjamin Treplin

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 06:11 AM

Jade,
As for the Artemis, you won't likely find a lot of info here new or old as things like that, Glidecam, Actioncam, etc... tend not to be used in the same market most of the people here work in. They're may be other forums…



Brian,

no disrespect but the Artemis rigs, at least the Cine and CineHD, are top of the line sleds.
Frederic Chamberland used to have one and was very happy with it till it was stolen. They do have smaller setups for a budget but so do other manufactures. There are quite some sleds here in Europe and Japan I think.

BTW what is the market most people work in here?
My impression is that this forum is not about certain markets it is for steadicam operators working on a professional level, making a living from the nobel instrument.

Disclaimer: No I do not work for Sachtler or have any involvement in their company. Just my 2 cent.
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#10 Kelli Lee

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 09:15 AM

Ok wow! I'm an idiot.

I just noticed that when I did the search for the Artemis, Archer etc, I had "search only this forum" checked in the search bar.

Let's hope I'm better at operating than using a search engine :P
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#11 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 12:08 PM

Kelli,

It was good to meet you at the Workshop. Glad you got a chance to fly the rigs. I hope you get an opportunity to fly the other rigs you are considering before making your choice. Payload specs tell you nothing about how a system is designed, nor how well it performs.

An Archer2 is an elegant and beautifully-performing system. As to the weight limits, maybe someone who has flown a Red configuration on an Archer can give some feedback on how it handles, and the best way to configure it. I don't have the impression that the Archer will be overburdened by most Red setups, unless you just get stuck with something ridiculous. The 30lb camera payload rating on the G50 arm is a bit conservative, I suspect. Is the Artemis 57 lb weight limit the total payload or camera payload? If total payload, then the G50 arm is much closer (about 50 lbs total payload, I believe.)

If budget is an issue re: the monitor, consider the standard def Archer monitor with a Redbyte Decimator downconverter. The SD monitor is a bright, very capable framing monitor, and if you later decide to upgrade, there are many reasonably-priced 3rd party options on the market or just coming to market.

Talk further with Peter Abraham at Tiffen about your questions. He's a very knowledgeable, accessable guy and he can give you their perspective on the relative merits of the various Tiffen rigs for the type of work you're contemplating.

Good luck!
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#12 Brian Freesh

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:04 PM

no disrespect but the Artemis rigs, at least the Cine and CineHD, are top of the line sleds.


Umm... no disrespect taken. Not sure why that would be a concern. I don't know anything about the artemis, so I have no personal opinion about it, naturally. Maybe you can provide some input, though? |-)~

BTW what is the market most people work in here?


The Union market, from what I've observed (and of which I am not a part). In hindsight that's overly generalized, but that's all I was getting at.

My impression is that this forum is not about certain markets it is for steadicam operators working on a professional level, making a living from the nobel instrument.


That is my impression as well. And most of them don't use the Artemis. As Jade said, there's not a lot of info on the Artemis here, and most of it is a few years old. Even Erwin's added links confirm that. To my eyes that means nothing more and nothing less than most of the people that frequent this forum don't know much about the Artemis, implying most of them don't use it.

After reading your post again, I'm thinking you read what I thought was a neutral stance as an anti-artemis stance, and you took offense. My apologies, this was not intended, I really was just trying to state observations about this forum, as I hope is all I've done in this post. Again, I don't have an opinion of the Sachtler rigs, as I've never used one.

Brian, quick question regarding when you said "there's a reason the Artemis isn't mentioned". Specifically, what's the reason?


See above. |-)~
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#13 Gus Trivino

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 01:41 PM

Hi Jade

I have an Artemis Cine HD since 2004.
Send me an email for any kind of question about it: steadifilm@yahoo.com
best to all,

Gus
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#14 AdamKeith

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Posted 14 December 2009 - 07:28 PM

I own and operate a Artemis EFP Pro. I work 80% Broadcast TV, live and tape. I am very happy with the sled. HD/SDI down Post to my Transvideo Monitor. Built in Talley System. Lemo pin-outs are the same as my EFP. Many other features. Check out the Artemis website for more info http://www.artemis-hd.com

I also have received excellent service from everyone at Camera Dynamics here in New York. If you need more info contact
Curt O. Schaller at curt@artemis-hd.com or call Len Donavon at Camera Dynamics.

Regards,
Adam Keith
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#15 Benjamin Treplin

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Posted 16 December 2009 - 11:46 AM

And most of them don't use the Artemis. As Jade said, there's not a lot of info on the Artemis here, and most of it is a few years old. Even Erwin's added links confirm that. To my eyes that means nothing more and nothing less than most of the people that frequent this forum don't know much about the Artemis, implying most of them don't use it.

After reading your post again, I'm thinking you read what I thought was a neutral stance as an anti-artemis stance, and you took offense.


Brian,

you missed my point and I should have been more precise. I did not take this as an anti Artemis stance, not at all.
I took it more as an anti forum stance. On the one hand you reduce this place to markets most people work in and equipment brands most people use here and on the other hand you tell people to go to other forums because there is only few or old information here and you imply that this will be the case in the future. This is absurd. Instead we should have encouraged those "few" (how can we know that) like Adam, Gus, Frederic and others to cime in and share there insights.

"… and there's a reason the Artemis isn't included in those threads."
You make vague statements made of quick assumptions.

"Again, I don't have an opinion of the Sachtler rigs, as I've never used one."
So why do you post on this topic in the first place?

Eventually you tell someone this is the wrong place without knowing if this is the case.

This forum might be based in the USA but it is a world wide forum with professionals working in all kinds of market with all kinds of equipment and if they use a broomstick as long as they are professional Steadicam operators (use the search function before asking the same question over and over again :) ) and have something to contribute, they should be welcome to share there knowledge.
It is the sole purpose of any forum to make information and ideally knowledge and wisdom available to it's members by it's members.

Enough rant.

Fly safe.
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