Jump to content



Photo

Kangaroo 360


  • Please log in to reply
12 replies to this topic

#1 Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 16 September 2009 - 03:21 PM

The Steadicam is balanced static and dynamic all the shots look great but when I do a 360 with a fish eye the video looks like is going up and down. I tried to walk in a perfect circle, made nice marks, tried different speeds and did not solve the prob. I walk straight and point the camera to my left side (90 degrees). Very puzzled. Anyone had the same prob, knows a fix? suggestions? Many thanks! It happens Only when I do a circle! About 6 feet radius I loosen the springs with no difference..
  • 0

#2 JobScholtze

JobScholtze

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 1361 posts
  • Netherlands

Posted 16 September 2009 - 04:39 PM

The Steadicam is balanced static and dynamic all the shots look great but when I do a 360 with a fish eye the video looks like is going up and down. I tried to walk in a perfect circle, made nice marks, tried different speeds and did not solve the prob. I walk straight and point the camera to my left side (90 degrees). Very puzzled. Anyone had the same prob, knows a fix? suggestions? Many thanks! It happens Only when I do a circle! About 6 feet radius I loosen the springs with no difference..


A little more info? Rig? Camera? Setup? Droptime? etc

Best
  • 0

#3 Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:11 PM

The Steadicam is balanced static and dynamic all the shots look great but when I do a 360 with a fish eye the video looks like is going up and down. I tried to walk in a perfect circle, made nice marks, tried different speeds and did not solve the prob. I walk straight and point the camera to my left side (90 degrees). Very puzzled. Anyone had the same prob, knows a fix? suggestions? Many thanks! It happens Only when I do a circle! About 6 feet radius I loosen the springs with no difference..


A little more info? Rig? Camera? Setup? Droptime? etc

Best


Thank you for asking:

I have 2 HVX 200's Panasonics with a Century Optics Fisheye on each one:

http://www.bhphotovi...makers_Kit.html

http://www.bhphotovi...apter_Lens.html

One Hytron 140 to power them and one Dionic 90 for the monitor.

I tried drop times from a little less than 1 sec to 3.8 secs

I have the cameras in low mode in a system I designed to be really close to each other.

Video of the problem:

http://www.3dmovies....Lau1/index.html

After seeing this video I tried unsuccessfully to correct this prob.

Any advice/suggestion is appreciated. I am new to this and I know there are lots of tricks and I have a long way ahead..
  • 0

#4 Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 16 September 2009 - 06:16 PM

I forgot to mention that that because of the up n down jump I edited that video and put it in slow motion otherwise it'll be unacceptable. Not that now is ok.
So this is 222% slower than the original.

http://www.3dmovies....Lau1/index.html
  • 0

#5 Ken Nguyen

Ken Nguyen

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 245 posts
  • California & Viet Nam

Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:28 PM

Hi Julian,
What stabilizing system do you have?

Based on your video, I think the problem was more about your operational skill than the mechanical of the system.
If your camera plate is wobbling or some part of the system is loosely secured, the fish-eye lens will effectively hide most of those errors for you.
Every steps showed because:
- you didn't wear your vest right.
- overloaded your arm.
- over-controlled the sled (holding the sled too tight; one or both hands).
- NO static balanced.
- and.... a lot more!

Cheers,
Ken.
  • 0

#6 Gus Trivino

Gus Trivino

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 236 posts
  • Buenos Aires, Argentina.

Posted 17 September 2009 - 11:21 AM

Hi julian

I think use a Hytron 140 and a Dionic 90 is a lot of weight for a P2 camera.
I feel more comfortable the balence using the gimbal near to top stage, and using 2 batteries you have to go down with the gimbal.
On the video we can see your steps walking.
Maybe you adjusted with more power of necessary the arm?
Just my 2 cent.
Best to all,

Gus
  • 0

#7 Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 17 September 2009 - 11:58 AM

Hi Julian,
What stabilizing system do you have?

Based on your video, I think the problem was more about your operational skill than the mechanical of the system.
If your camera plate is wobbling or some part of the system is loosely secured, the fish-eye lens will effectively hide most of those errors for you.
Every steps showed because:
- you didn't wear your vest right.
- overloaded your arm.
- over-controlled the sled (holding the sled too tight; one or both hands).
- NO static balanced.
- and.... a lot more!

Cheers,
Ken.


Hello Ken,

Thank u for your reply. I agree with u and I'm sure my operational "skills" need improvement ;-). I wish I could find any workshop here in Boca Raton area Florida or even pay someone to teach me as I need it Fast. I'll go through every step that you mentioned and report back in few days.

I have two stabilization system, one is a steadicam Merlin (for 1 camera) :

http://www.bhphotovi...ing_System.html
I use this for monoscopic shots

and the other one is a Glidecam v-25:

http://www.bhphotovi...nton_Bauer.html
I use this for stereoscopic 2 HVX200 shots

The arm supports 25lbs so if I have 22lbs on it and the arm (both parts) is straight is it overloaded?

It's pure magic when it's flow less!

Cheers,
Julian
  • 0

#8 Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 17 September 2009 - 12:48 PM

Hi julian

I think use a Hytron 140 and a Dionic 90 is a lot of weight for a P2 camera.
I feel more comfortable the balence using the gimbal near to top stage, and using 2 batteries you have to go down with the gimbal.
On the video we can see your steps walking.
Maybe you adjusted with more power of necessary the arm?
Just my 2 cent.
Best to all,

Gus


Hi Gus,

I'll try to use the stock HVX batteries and a small battery for the monitor and report the results to you.

>>I feel more comfortable the balence using the gimbal near to top stage, and using 2 batteries you have to go down with the gimbal.

I don't understand that. The batteries need to be on top of the gimbal because it's a low mode shot. Which brings another very interesting point for me to ask all:


How you manage the monitor position in a low mode shot? If u leave it high then you can't look where u going.. if u remount it low next to the cameras (IF u find space) how u compensate the weight on top?


Best to all,
Very nice Forum!
Julian
  • 0

#9 G. Grammatikos

G. Grammatikos

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 98 posts
  • Greece

Posted 18 September 2009 - 05:19 AM

Hi Julian
this kind of cameras have an optical or image stabilizer (something like that )did you turn it off?
  • 0

#10 Christian Dietrich

Christian Dietrich

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 13 posts
  • Berlin,Germany

Posted 18 September 2009 - 12:53 PM

Hi Gus,

I'll try to use the stock HVX batteries and a small battery for the monitor and report the results to you.

>>I feel more comfortable the balence using the gimbal near to top stage, and using 2 batteries you have to go down with the gimbal.

I don't understand that. The batteries need to be on top of the gimbal because it's a low mode shot. Which brings another very interesting point for me to ask all:


How you manage the monitor position in a low mode shot? If u leave it high then you can't look where u going.. if u remount it low next to the cameras (IF u find space) how u compensate the weight on top?


Best to all,
Very nice Forum!
Julian





Hallo Julian,

Yes, at the HVX the "OIS" must be turnnd off.
And for your low mode problem only some examples: get one of your batteries to the other side of the post (if it is possible
with your rig) or get one of the batteries directly on the monitor or get some extraweigth on your monitor or.... but these are
the basics how setting up your rig and how it works ;)
After you did a workshop you will never have such a problem again.

Greetings,
Chris

Edited by Christian Dietrich, 18 September 2009 - 12:59 PM.

  • 0

#11 Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 18 September 2009 - 07:23 PM

Hi George and Chris,
Thank u for the advice.
Yes of course I have the OIS always off.
Chris I tried that, I moved the Hytron 140 from side to side (180 degrees) but did not solved the problem. It made a difference in the balance of course but the up/down effect in 360's exists.
I'm almost happy with all the rest but the 360 is important. After that I noticed that many many videos have this Kangaroo effect so it's not only me.
Cheers,
Julian




Hallo Julian,

Yes, at the HVX the "OIS" must be turnnd off.
And for your low mode problem only some examples: get one of your batteries to the other side of the post (if it is possible
with your rig) or get one of the batteries directly on the monitor or get some extraweigth on your monitor or.... but these are
the basics how setting up your rig and how it works ;)
After you did a workshop you will never have such a problem again.

Greetings,
Chris
[/quote]
  • 0

#12 Jerry Holway

Jerry Holway

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 737 posts
  • Philadelphia

Posted 19 September 2009 - 08:51 AM

Julian-

One of the problems of not taking a workshop is not being exactly clear about how the gear and the operator work together. Then, when you have a problem, it takes a long time to sort it out, and even then you do not have a large set of practical exercises at hand to teach you how to operate better. Unfortunate.
Circling, for instance, requires perfect static balance for really precise work - the static balance must hold the frame.

It seems to me from your description (admittedly at some remove) that it's just one of those skills you must learn - dampening the action of the springs in the arm. It's possible the arm has some issues, but unlikely. Different arms require slightly different techniques (as do different rigs), but the specific technique can be put into muscle memory fairly quickly once the basic skill has been learned.

Another thing Garrett learned from The Shining (so many things one learns at the workshops!...) is that when using wide lenses, it's critical to keep the lens absolutely level for and aft as well as to the horizon.

As everyone says, take a workshop. Until you can, read the book and get the EFP DVD, and take full shot videos of yourself operating.

Jerry
  • 0

#13 Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

Julian_deniro@hotmail.com

    New Member

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 7 posts

Posted 25 September 2009 - 02:40 PM

Hello Jerry, Chris, George, Gus, Ken and Job,

Thank you for your valuable advice. I'll follow it and report back to you in the near future.

Julian DeNiro,
Steadicam in learning ;-)
3dmovies.com
  • 0




rebotnix Technologies

Ritter Battery

SkyDreams

GPI Pro Systems

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

Paralinx LLC

BOXX

Boland Communications

IDX

Omnishot Systems

Wireless Video Systems

Varizoom Follow Focus

Engineered Cinema Solutions

Teradek

PLC Electronics Solutions

Betz Tools for Stabilizers

PLC - Bartech