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hard mount rig for ice?


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#1 Steve Minnick

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 08:17 PM

Looking into building/setting up a hard mount rig for a flyer to be "flown" on the ice. Apparently there was a really great one built for the movie "Miracle" but I never saw it. Anybody have any pics of that? My idea is to basically build a mini dolly but not sure if we need skate blades or if we can manage with rubber tires. Turning is a whole other issue. We'd like to be able to get really low but also be able to interact on a "normal skating height" with the players. The low shots would be to follow the puck, sticks, and skates of the players.

I can buy the hat top looking hard mount from Tiffen and then mount that to a board or pancake and then in turn mount that to the "sled or psuedo ice dolly"

looking for suggestions.....

Thanks
Steve
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#2 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 29 August 2009 - 09:24 PM

Do some searching as I believe this has been discussed some on here before. Fisher actually makes skates for their dollies. I used skates that were designed for a doorway dolly on one shoot but they were a custom job. I don't see rubber tires working well. If you are just moving in a straight line building something should be rather simple. Taking a grinder to a couple of steel plates should get you some blades. Rust will be a problem if its not stainless.

Regular operating on ice is also possible but of course not at high speed. I have used stabilicers(http://www.32north.com/prod_stab.htm) on an ice skating rink and was pleasantly surprised at how stable I was. I even did some running while in low mode for the follow the puck shot.

~Jess
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#3 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 09:03 AM

Is this going to be shot in a skating rink ? What kind of speeds are you thinking you will need to achieve?

Sanjay Sami
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#4 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 05:24 PM

David Mullen just posted some pics from a movie he's working on at the moment on cinematography.com and there is one showing a speedrail rig they built for ice. Try this link. I think you'll be able to see the thread. Looks like it could work with steadicam with some slight mods.
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#5 Steve Minnick

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Posted 30 August 2009 - 11:23 PM

David Mullen just posted some pics from a movie he's working on at the moment on cinematography.com and there is one showing a speedrail rig they built for ice. Try this link. I think you'll be able to see the thread. Looks like it could work with steadicam with some slight mods.

that's a great start for refernce...thanks...I wonder if the hockey pucks were enough to smoth the ride out...although that's what the steadi-arm will do.

Thanks for the link!!!

to answer the other question...yes it will be shot inside an ice rink.

We did some hand-held tests with a spring arm support today on the ice...an experienced skater/camera op. got pretty good results.

We still need to build something that we can have control over and also get low to the ice.

I'm thinking maybe a thick plywood (maybe with pucks mounted underneath?) and then attach some pipe or speedrail to mount the socket block. Then I just need some place to sit.....

thanks for the replys...still open for suggestions if you got 'em.

thanks!
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#6 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 01:04 AM

Maybe hardrigged to a dolly would be a good option. It will allow you to boom your mount up or down to quickly change lens height. The fisher 10 on skates is pretty hard to control because of the weight if you are going at any kind of speed. However, panther makes skates for their dollies as well. I'm not sure how easy it will be to come by in america though. The Panther is much lighter and is actually a great dolly to work off a hard rig.

Hope that helps

Sanjay Sami
www.thegripworks.com
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#7 Sanjay Sami

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Posted 31 August 2009 - 01:23 AM

I just saw the pictures posted by Mr. Mullen. The rig Brad Heiner built is really clever on many levels. I think the choice to go with hockey pucks rather than a dolly could well be a stipulation from the rink. A dolly on skates that you can steer IMO will be easier to keep in the correct orientation than something on pucks that will be trickier to steer. However the dolly on skates does chew up the ice when you steer. An experienced skater / operator will make all the difference though.

Sanjay Sami
www.thegripworks.com

i am sure you've already thought of it, but if the rink allows it, sprinters spikes work great for traction on ice. Gets cold after a while though.
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#8 Brad Grimmett

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 06:07 AM

I'm thinking maybe a thick plywood (maybe with pucks mounted underneath?) and then attach some pipe or speedrail to mount the socket block. Then I just need some place to sit.....

If you're really considering doing that, then just get some apple boxes and screw them down and then screw your hard mount to them. I've done that in the back of an ATV before. Then just screw down an apple to sit on and you're set. This type of setup would work better for low mode than high of course.
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#9 Steve Minnick

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 03:36 PM

I'm thinking maybe a thick plywood (maybe with pucks mounted underneath?) and then attach some pipe or speedrail to mount the socket block. Then I just need some place to sit.....

If you're really considering doing that, then just get some apple boxes and screw them down and then screw your hard mount to them. I've done that in the back of an ATV before. Then just screw down an apple to sit on and you're set. This type of setup would work better for low mode than high of course.



Brad- yes...the idea is in the running. I am trying to keep this low budget but at the same time safe and effective. I don't want to make the thing too heavy though either....and since it will need at least one person pushing or pulling I need to make it light enough. Maybe a 4 x 4 3/4 inch piece of ply....pucks mounted underneath....speed rail off the back for pushing/ pulling...a chair or apple box mounted to sit...and then pipe or an apple box that I can screw in the "top hat" flyer hard mount. I wish I could find a used hard mount...B and H has the part for $1,024......That just may do it.
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#10 Rob Vuona SOC

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 06:07 PM

Looking into building/setting up a hard mount rig for a flyer to be "flown" on the ice. Apparently there was a really great one built for the movie "Miracle" but I never saw it. Anybody have any pics of that? My idea is to basically build a mini dolly but not sure if we need skate blades or if we can manage with rubber tires. Turning is a whole other issue. We'd like to be able to get really low but also be able to interact on a "normal skating height" with the players. The low shots would be to follow the puck, sticks, and skates of the players.

I can buy the hat top looking hard mount from Tiffen and then mount that to a board or pancake and then in turn mount that to the "sled or psuedo ice dolly"

looking for suggestions.....

Thanks
Steve


Depending on your budget . . .

there's a rail/dolly cam that works on Americas Best Dance Crew, it circles the stage at 30-40 MPH rock solid and can be rigged to be 12-24" inches off the ground.

Otherwise, just skate with the camera,

Good luck
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#11 Aaron Medick SOC

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 08:10 PM

When I was a grip we took a 4' piece or steel dolly track upside down on the ice then racket strapped a doorway dolly on top and a bazooka mount. we got great shoots and it was all on the fly with gear we had on the truck. It would also work with a muscle cart for hand held. It's fast and cheap and you can set the baziika as low or high as needed.
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#12 Steve Minnick

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Posted 01 September 2009 - 10:13 PM

When I was a grip we took a 4' piece or steel dolly track upside down on the ice then racket strapped a doorway dolly on top and a bazooka mount. we got great shoots and it was all on the fly with gear we had on the truck. It would also work with a muscle cart for hand held. It's fast and cheap and you can set the baziika as low or high as needed.



Very interesting idea Aaron. I'd love if you had a picture of it...although I can picture it in my head. It's a great idea....might just have to try it.
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#13 Sam Morgan Moore

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Posted 10 January 2010 - 11:48 PM

Im always scared of posting outside of the newbie area - Im not a newb at spending christmas by a frozen swedish lake though :)

Have had a lot of fun with a kicksled..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kicksled

the brilliant thing about these is that as the 'driver' twists the handlebars the sled rails bend and describe an arc so the sled turns

the drverr wears a spiked shoe hence the device being nicknames a spike or spark in sweden

S

Edited by Sam Morgan Moore, 10 January 2010 - 11:52 PM.

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#14 Alfeo Dixon SOC

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 09:37 AM

looks interesting, but my first question is what about the stability, especially in a turn and secondly, those long skids look easy to trip on.

-Alfeo
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#15 Sam Morgan Moore

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Posted 11 January 2010 - 10:27 AM

looks interesting, but my first question is what about the stability, especially in a turn and secondly, those long skids look easy to trip on.

-Alfeo


You can do some pretty mean turns - and can also fall out

I think a custom one would have to be made with the op very low to the ground - I was pointing out the brilliance 'flextrack' 'technology' that steers and goes straight too - not suggesting that buying an off the shelf model would be a perfect solution !

S
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