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I'll let you barrow my RED if I can barrow your Steadicam


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#1 Andrew Waite

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:21 AM

Long story short, I HAD a Flyer, sold it hoping to get a Archer2, but something unexpected came up spent my money on a vehicle, now I am rigless and I have a feature shoot coming up and I need a rig BAD!

First, the dates are 8/4-8/18 ( I don't need it the entire time, just as much as possible during that time period)

Ok, I'm pretty desperate... as here is my situation. I don't have much money, but here is what I can do. do a 1 for 1 trade of my complete Red One camera package. Meaning for every day you let me rent your Steadicam I will let you use my complete RED One camera package... no black out dates no expiration, in writing.

Hopefully that made since. I'll clarify. Because I can only afford a few hundred bucks I can supplement by giving you 'cart blanche' of my RED One camera. You let me 'Rent' your rig for 12 days you get my Camera for 12 days any time you like.. no black outs.. with a reasonable amount of notice. I will put everything in writing.

So what does my camera package include? I have RED #6315 with PL mount and Birger Mount. Full set of primes, remote FF, 5.6 LCD, two 640GB Raids, two 16GB CF Cards, four Red Brick Batteries, Base Production pack, extra handles, two side handles, top mounts with rods, Red Rock Mattebox, Filters, AC Adapter, Two Chargers, Misc Cables, Pelican Cases, etc. Also to sweeten the deal I have a sound package as well with an Edirol R4-Pro with 4 Sennheiser lavs, 4 Tram TR-50 lavs, ME-66 w/ 10' Boom and Dead Kitty, XLR, Pelicans, etc. A pretty fair trade if you ask me.

PM me with any offers. Remember, this is a trade plus I'll put a few Benjamins in your pocket and Ill be your best friend. Thanks.
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#2 Sydney Seeber

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:52 AM

How come no one with a Red cam has any money?
Serious question.
I've had six calls in the last two weeks for Red cam work... The grand total for all those jobs combined equals less than a grand... Probably comes out to around 2 bucks an hour...
I mean, 3 or so years ago, Red was telling everyone that if you bought their camera, you're immediately a Hollywood cinematographer. It brought high end film making to the masses, if you will. What, exactly, is this company pushing? An impossible ideal?
No offense intended here bro, there's just so many of you out there. Very few guys I know who bought this thing have turned a profit, and I'm genuinely wondering what the hell's going on with this phenomenon. The ones I know who have actually made a decent amount were already pretty well established.
I suppose it's like being in a band, maybe. Do some gigs, maybe you'll get paid down the road? I don't know...
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#3 Andrew Waite

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:15 PM

How come no one with a Red cam has any money?
Serious question.
I've had six calls in the last two weeks for Red cam work... The grand total for all those jobs combined equals less than a grand... Probably comes out to around 2 bucks an hour...
I mean, 3 or so years ago, Red was telling everyone that if you bought their camera, you're immediately a Hollywood cinematographer. It brought high end film making to the masses, if you will. What, exactly, is this company pushing? An impossible ideal?
No offense intended here bro, there's just so many of you out there.
I suppose it's like being in a band, maybe. Do some gigs, maybe you'll get paid down the road? I don't know...


It's okay, no offense taken. I just got my RED about a month ago. Before that I had to rent and it's wasn't always easy. Maybe Red owners don't have any money because they've spent it all on their damn Red and all the crap you need to use it. I wish it was more turn key, but it's not. We've dumped so much money and continue to dump money into our camera and still I feel like there is a lot I still need to have a decent package, it's never ending, there is ALWAYS bigger and better.
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#4 William Demeritt

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:19 PM

How come no one with a Red cam has any money?
Serious question.
I've had six calls in the last two weeks for Red cam work... The grand total for all those jobs combined equals less than a grand... Probably comes out to around 2 bucks an hour...
I mean, 3 or so years ago, Red was telling everyone that if you bought their camera, you're immediately a Hollywood cinematographer. It brought high end film making to the masses, if you will. What, exactly, is this company pushing? An impossible ideal?
No offense intended here bro, there's just so many of you out there.
I suppose it's like being in a band, maybe. Do some gigs, maybe you'll get paid down the road? I don't know...


I've heard stories here in LA in the low budget world where RED owner/operators rent their camera package (body, aks and primes) with themselves as 1st AC AND DIT for $300/day, $400/day, etc.

Why do the RED productions rarely seem to have money? Well, if it wasn't shooting on the RED, I think those productions would be shooting on whatever else was cheap and available. HVX200, Sony EX1/EX3, perhaps even Sony V1U or the Canon XH-A1? The phenomenon is that those cameras are a fraction of the cost of the RED (which itself is a fraction of the cost of a Varicam, Cinealta F900, etc).

The market is flooded, indie productions love playing with the new toys, and they manage to get some cheap crew for the opportunity to play with the RED. The company is selling (my opinion) a great product that's coming together nicely. The people buying seem to think their purchase would pay off within an easy 100 days and start generating revenue. 2 years later, history seems to have proven otherwise.
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#5 Andrew Waite

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:19 PM

It just occurred to me, incase it wasn't clear, I don't necessarily need an operator. I am an operator and had my own rig for quite some time. I just need the rig, but am open to the idea of an operator as well.
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#6 Andrew Waite

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:24 PM

You're right, the market is pretty flooded, and if you look hard enough you can get a RED rental pretty cheap, although I have never seen anything THAT low, believe me before I was an owner myself I would have loved to save some money.

I was hoping this post wouldn't change into a discussion about the RED and it's impact on the industry.
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#7 William Demeritt

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:32 PM

You're right, the market is pretty flooded, and if you look hard enough you can get a RED rental pretty cheap, although I have never seen anything THAT low, believe me before I was an owner myself I would have loved to save some money.

I was hoping this post wouldn't change into a discussion about the RED and it's impact on the industry.


It's the natural tendency things around here, they quickly turn into a discussion. However, the discussion isn't necessarily a bad thing. For one, the thread gets more traffic which means you get more exposure. Second, discussion (no matter how heated or cynical) sometimes gets results. See XiaoSu Han's recent post: http://www.steadicam...h...=10148&st=0
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#8 Andrew Waite

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 12:37 PM

It's all good. I know there are going to be some out there that look at my proposal as "low ball" or unprofessional or whatever. I just look at it like this. Before I had a RED and all I had was a rig I would have jumped on this in a heartbeat.... now through some sort of freak occurrence I'm left with a RED and no rig now being on the other side. So, I'm hoping there is someone out there who is the situation I used to be in, having a rig and no camera.
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#9 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 01:13 PM

Are you in LA?

~Jess
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#10 Andrew Waite

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 01:15 PM

Are you in LA?

~Jess


I'm an 1.5 hours north of LA, and in LA on an almost weekly basis.
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#11 JobScholtze

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 03:02 PM

I cant agree more with sydney. Its getting silly. Every red gig i get, is almost for nothing. Most of the time the get the gear for free from some rentalhouse. ( like the think the guy will make a major movie in the future ) I think that i am the highest payd crewmember on those shoots ( i refuse them if the dont come up with my rates ) If the shoot requires a sony, or whatever high end hd camera, the budget isnt the issue. But since the red, people seems to think its a free camera. Weird.

Anyway, i do think its a good deal. 12 days exchange of gear IF you got payd for your red gigs.
Good luck man
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#12 Lawrence Karman

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 06:36 PM

sounds like a fair deal.
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#13 Andrew Waite

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 10:24 PM

Anyway, i do think its a good deal. 12 days exchange of gear IF you got payd for your red gigs.
Good luck man


You know, if it helps, I have a lot more gear than just my RED Camera, so if there is someone out there that needs a 3 ton G&E package, Dolly, Jib, Sound Package, or something else... let me know. Maybe it's not the RED that would be useful, but a grip truck or something else.... I'm totally willing to work something out.
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#14 Sydney Seeber

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Posted 25 July 2009 - 03:37 PM

Maybe Red owners don't have any money because they've spent it all on their damn Red and all the crap you need to use it. I wish it was more turn key, but it's not. We've dumped so much money and continue to dump money into our camera and still I feel like there is a lot I still need to have a decent package, it's never ending, there is ALWAYS bigger and better.

To clarify, I'm not against the idea of trading services, I'm totally down, and have done/will do it from time to time. I was commenting more on a particular trend I've seen a lot of lately, that being anything shot on a Red seems to not have a budget. A LOT lot... lot.
Your statement is more of a formula really, and one that's repeated by everyone I know, myself included. For the Red phenomena in particular it's kind of dangerous, as the camera itself may not be outrageously expensive, but a complete kit costs pretty close to as much as a decent 35mm package, granted an older 35mm camera. I know Red has a lot of promises in this regard, but they don't have a track record. This, combined with the short "Glamor" lifespan of digital cameras. people are still using that old 35mm camera, (In general, of course not as much) but in the lightning fast paced world of cameras, what's hot today is tomorrow's bastard stepchild. And I mean, kick the kid out in the street, don't give them a jacket or a lunch... Get the fuck out of here, we're on to something better. There is no gradual falloff, if recent history is any indication. Meaning, those not charging for services in the hope that down the road it'll pay off for them may be in for a rough road... I'm kind of the opinion that Red the company is feeding off of the instant-professional buzz. Not knocking the camera. Great picture and all that... Just commenting on a bigger picture, that's all... as I've said before, and others have as well, I've got a lot of expensive magnesium paperweights.
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#15 Andrew Waite

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Posted 26 July 2009 - 12:11 PM

Maybe Red owners don't have any money because they've spent it all on their damn Red and all the crap you need to use it. I wish it was more turn key, but it's not. We've dumped so much money and continue to dump money into our camera and still I feel like there is a lot I still need to have a decent package, it's never ending, there is ALWAYS bigger and better.

To clarify, I'm not against the idea of trading services, I'm totally down, and have done/will do it from time to time. I was commenting more on a particular trend I've seen a lot of lately, that being anything shot on a Red seems to not have a budget. A LOT lot... lot.
Your statement is more of a formula really, and one that's repeated by everyone I know, myself included. For the Red phenomena in particular it's kind of dangerous, as the camera itself may not be outrageously expensive, but a complete kit costs pretty close to as much as a decent 35mm package, granted an older 35mm camera. I know Red has a lot of promises in this regard, but they don't have a track record. This, combined with the short "Glamor" lifespan of digital cameras. people are still using that old 35mm camera, (In general, of course not as much) but in the lightning fast paced world of cameras, what's hot today is tomorrow's bastard stepchild. And I mean, kick the kid out in the street, don't give them a jacket or a lunch... Get the fuck out of here, we're on to something better. There is no gradual falloff, if recent history is any indication. Meaning, those not charging for services in the hope that down the road it'll pay off for them may be in for a rough road... I'm kind of the opinion that Red the company is feeding off of the instant-professional buzz. Not knocking the camera. Great picture and all that... Just commenting on a bigger picture, that's all... as I've said before, and others have as well, I've got a lot of expensive magnesium paperweights.


It's all good
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