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stiffening a gimbal's pan axis


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#1 Michael Wilson

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 07:25 PM

Just got back from a workshop and am spoiled from flying ultras and clippers for a week. Its back to the real world with my actioncam red edition.

I have spread the masses a far as humanly possible on this rig yet the gimbal is super fast and sporty with pans. And also the slightest bit of pressure from my thumb or finger will move the frame unacceptably in a walk and talk or tracking shot. How can I stiffen the gimbal so it requires more pressure to move in the pan axis. I have a very light touch. I have spread the masses.

Thanks everybody
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#2 Jerry Holway

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 07:34 PM

Michael-

The gimbal ALWAYS needs to be as friction and stiction free as possible in all axes, as its first BIG job is to isolate the angular component of the lifting forces from the rig. Panning and tilting and balancing and all that are also good features of the gimbal as well. Friction KILLS the isolation.

What you need to do is increase the sled's inertia (more weight, and/or masses further out from the rotational axes).

Make yourself an Antler-like crossbar, and/or add some weights to the monitor and battery; be careful to add weights so dynamic balance is still possible (don't know your rig, so don't know if it balances dynamically out of the box - if not, add weights so it can...)

Jerry

and Rick beat me to the operating well, choice of camera, and the rest. All good stuff
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#3 Richard James Lewis

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 07:35 PM

Work on your gimbal grip control.

It's advantageous to have a friction free gimbal, that's what we all aim for...

It could be that you are flying cameras that are too light, this in conjunction with having a wider gimbal grip diameter could make things more twitchy if you don’t watch your control.

It puzzles me that you have come back from a workshop thinking that a stiffer pan bearing is desirable.

Best,

Rick.

Beaten to it by Jerry...



Just got back from a workshop and am spoiled from flying ultras and clippers for a week. Its back to the real world with my actioncam red edition.

I have spread the masses a far as humanly possible on this rig yet the gimbal is super fast and sporty with pans. And also the slightest bit of pressure from my thumb or finger will move the frame unacceptably in a walk and talk or tracking shot. How can I stiffen the gimbal so it requires more pressure to move in the pan axis. I have a very light touch. I have spread the masses.

Thanks everybody


Edited by Richard J Lewis, 23 July 2009 - 07:40 PM.

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#4 Charles Papert

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 08:08 PM

Wait, how did both you guys beat each other....? Trippy, man.
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#5 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 23 July 2009 - 09:11 PM

The Red monitor is rather light so what you need to do is add more weight on the bottom of the sled in front of the post. Doing this will allow you to move the battery and hard drive further back while hopefully maintaining dynamic balance. . You can attach the weight to the monitor itself if its mount is strong enough or to the rods in front. Don't know if this will require longer rods. Ideally you would use a second battery and add some diodes so that you can parallel it with the other battery allowing longer battery life and hot swaps so that you don't have to shut down the red. Of course doing all that would require a bit of engineering and some soldering. These suggestions are based on somewhat fuzzy pictures of the red edition rig that I have seen. I haven't done it myself.

~Jess
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#6 chris fawcett

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 01:59 AM

It puzzles me that you have come back from a workshop thinking that a stiffer pan bearing is desirable.

Me too. Which workshop were you attending?

Chris
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#7 Michael Wilson

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 10:27 AM

I took the Floater Buddy 3000 workshop out of Key West, Florida. just kidding I went to Rockport for the Tiffen workshop.


I don't think I explained myself very well. The pan axis is extremely fast and sensitive. Even if I spread the masses to extremes it is still way too sensitive.

Imagine the differences you feel between a lightweight pilot and a fully loaded ultra. The ultra feels really solid requires more force to pan and tilt. Its easy to get a smooth pan or tilt. The pilot is really susceptible to the slightest pressures in its axis. It requires an extremely light touch to get smooth shots. My rig feels more like a pilot in its pan axis and I am flying a RED on it.

Perhaps adding more overall weight to the rig would help. I am going to experiment today and let you know what I find. Also it is a 2-inch post/gimbal.

Edited by Michael Wilson, 24 July 2009 - 10:29 AM.

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#8 chris fawcett

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 10:38 AM

Yeah,

Adding weight spread out as far as possible will definitely help. Having a 'sticky' gimbal would make things worse, believe me. You have a very good rig in the Pilot, but being lightweight, it is sensitive. On the bright side, if you train with this, when you move up to a big rig, you'll notice you have developed a great level of control.

Have fun,

Chris
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#9 chris fawcett

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 10:38 AM

Yeah,

Adding weight spread out as far as possible will definitely help. Having a 'sticky' gimbal would make things worse, believe me. You have a very good rig in the Pilot, but being lightweight, it is sensitive. On the bright side, if you train with this, when you move up to a big rig, you'll notice you have developed a great level of control.

Have fun,

Chris
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#10 Erik Brul

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 11:26 AM

I think we can consider the Actioncam RED rig as a big rig ;) .. i cannot remember this ´over´ sensitive gimbal at the IBC last year. To me it felt
like a more solid ´heavy´ rig and handling was more like a Archer in response...
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#11 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 01:26 PM

Can you post a picture of your sled fully built? As I said I really think this has a lot to do with the fact that the way the sled is designed all the weight is really close to the post at the bottom and not nearly as spread out as it could be even when you extend things. Your also not working with all that much weight since you moved almost everything from the RED camera to the bottom of the sled and whats on the bottom is still probably lighter than what many guys usually fly on the bottom of their sled when flying a red. This isn't a bad thing necessarily especially as a running rig but to get that feel you are wanting you may need to add a little more weight as spread out as possible.. I would recommend doing it in the form of batteries to get some extra run time out of the pig. I could be wrong of course. Of course with a bit a practice you might not mind the current feel of the rig. Steadicam does take a LOT of practice.

~Jess
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#12 Michael Wilson

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 06:48 PM

Here is a photo. Those are 18" rods with battery and hard drive extended all the way out. This helps a bit. Not as much as I would have hoped though. I will load the red down tomorrow and see what happens.

thanks for help everyone

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  • Attached File  red.jpg   73.97KB   90 downloads

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#13 Michael Wilson

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Posted 24 July 2009 - 07:17 PM

Attached File  red.jpg   73.97KB   30 downloads

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  • Attached File  red.jpg   73.97KB   24 downloads

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