Jump to content



Photo

Folks asking for freebies


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 Joshua Harrison

Joshua Harrison

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 127 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 12 July 2009 - 10:03 AM

I've noticed a trend of folks coming around here and asking for freebies lately and like most of you, I'm not very happy with said trend. We all know how much time and money we have invested in our careers and having folks come out of nowhere and asking for favors can seem insulting. However, I'm sure that 95% of the time no insult is intended, it seems that most of them are naive or perhaps just ignorant of what is required to make a film.
I'm suggesting that we not take offense at these posts and either ignore them or if you're gonna say no be polite about it. There's no reason to belittle someone's dreams because they asked for help.

Perhaps a generic sticky post that someone could draft up, that would explain why someone wouldn't want to work for free after dropping $100,000 on gear would be appropriate and then we could direct that person to the proper post.

Anyhow before anyone attacks someone for asking just realize that this is their dream, and even though it probably won't work out for them, why kick them in the face just for dreaming?

respectfully,
Josh
  • 0

#2 Janice Arthur

Janice Arthur

    Advanced Member

  • Moderators
  • PipPipPip
  • 811 posts

Posted 13 July 2009 - 09:27 AM

Joshua;

Here is my answer to those who want too much for free. (I like most do an occasional reduced rate/student film.)

If is it a "business" and they want a freebee or nearly so I say fine you don't have money now,
"I want 10% of the gross when it does make money."

That used to be the norm, they don't even offer a percentage now because they see us as too low on the importance scale. Hey think of me as an investor!

Its funny but before they used to be happy with someone who would just show up with the gear, now they check your resume, to see if you are "qualified" to work for them for free. Ain't that a statement about craziness?

If its a business venture and you expect to make money then I'll take a chance on you but you've got to pay somewhere down the road. They say you can have credit; I say I don't need credit I need cash.

I know its hard to collect, but boy they start reeling and you can state your case and demands.

(Rental houses are swamped with these guys these days and they expect free or no cost gear at every turn and can't figure out why the rental house isn't "thrilled" to help them.)

JA

(Just some thoughts.)
  • 0

#3 Amando Crespo

Amando Crespo

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 776 posts
  • Madrid Spain

Posted 13 July 2009 - 06:54 PM

Joshua;

Here is my answer to those who want too much for free. (I like most do an occasional reduced rate/student film.)

If is it a "business" and they want a freebee or nearly so I say fine you don't have money now,
"I want 10% of the gross when it does make money."

That used to be the norm, they don't even offer a percentage now because they see us as too low on the importance scale. Hey think of me as an investor!

Its funny but before they used to be happy with someone who would just show up with the gear, now they check your resume, to see if you are "qualified" to work for them for free. Ain't that a statement about craziness?

If its a business venture and you expect to make money then I'll take a chance on you but you've got to pay somewhere down the road. They say you can have credit; I say I don't need credit I need cash.

I know its hard to collect, but boy they start reeling and you can state your case and demands.

(Rental houses are swamped with these guys these days and they expect free or no cost gear at every turn and can't figure out why the rental house isn't "thrilled" to help them.)

JA

(Just some thoughts.)

.... Janice...Your answer is "the answer"... B)
  • 0

#4 Charles Papert

Charles Papert

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2224 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 14 July 2009 - 04:52 PM

This forum is really starting to groan under the weight of all-things-to-all-people. I think we may have to start looking again at splitting off into a pro-level (i.e. people who make a living at Steadicam) forum a la the original AOL board and having another one to cater to the ever-growing indie/student/newbie and small stabilizer industry.
  • 0

#5 Tom Wills

Tom Wills

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 384 posts
  • Philadelphia, PA

Posted 14 July 2009 - 05:34 PM

Charles,

I think that might be the best idea of all. The Steadi-Newbies section has been growing, and I know there must be plenty of people like me for whom small stabilizers, indie films, and low-budget production is where we exist. And, by opening up something that's oriented towards the high-end amateur and low-end professional, while still keeping the impressive membership of this board, it could bring in a lot of the low-budget stabilizing crowd that is currently spread across several different sites.
  • 0

#6 Sam Morgan Moore

Sam Morgan Moore

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 238 posts

Posted 15 July 2009 - 12:24 AM

This forum is really starting to groan under the weight of all-things-to-all-people. I think we may have to start looking again at splitting off into a pro-level (i.e. people who make a living at Steadicam) forum a la the original AOL board and having another one to cater to the ever-growing indie/student/newbie and small stabilizer industry.


I think this must be a very interesting time for 'your' industry

My 'lead' profession as press photographer has moved wildly over the last 10 years

When I started you need a magic $100k machine to do the magic of sending pictures down the telephone - It was really only possible to enter the industry by apprenticing for an established 'operator'

And during that apprenticship you kind of learned the code of the brotherhood

Focus pulling sports photography in the pre autofocus era was an art that one had to be dedicated to to learn too

So you had an industry that had a high cost of entry in terms of both cash and skill and was populated by a happy bunch of well paid individuals who made the grade and stuck to the code

I was able to go freelance when the entry kit reduced in cost to about $10k with early digitisation in 1995, but I took 'the code' with me into my freelance business

Now of course the cost of entry to 'my industry' is $800 digicam and $500 laptop

Us 'old farts' talk about the way 'my industry' has all 'gone wrong' - in fact it has 'gone wrong' to an extent where I cant see a future without widening my skillset into making web shorts on top of my core offer of still photography - hence arriving at steadicam

The next 5d (or whatever) next year will have the bugs ironed out . Add a Pilot and there will be an industry changing combination that you Pros must most likely have a really good think about the implications of - it is more than just this board that could implode

In terms of the board it is very hard to create a situation that is welcoming to serious people who are new in the game while filtering out the chaf of those that will just walk away after a year having hammered a couple of nails into the coffin by operating at a loss and driving down the percieved correct price structure (my quotes are often 3X more than my newb 'rivals' - when Im giving a big discount and showing the client the difference in value, which is there, is a my greatest challenge)

Good luck in interesting times..

S

Edited by Sam Morgan Moore, 15 July 2009 - 12:29 AM.

  • 0

#7 Charles King

Charles King

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 343 posts
  • Sweden

Posted 15 July 2009 - 05:11 AM

This forum is really starting to groan under the weight of all-things-to-all-people. I think we may have to start looking again at splitting off into a pro-level (i.e. people who make a living at Steadicam) forum a la the original AOL board and having another one to cater to the ever-growing indie/student/newbie and small stabilizer industry.


I like this idea CP. This would bring peace on both sides of the water.
  • 0

#8 Imran Naqvi

Imran Naqvi

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 221 posts
  • London. UK

Posted 15 July 2009 - 08:06 AM

The problem would be that many of these people asking for freebies will want to chance their arm asking the pros rather than the newbs. After all they're going to be the Spielberg/Kubrick/Scorcese etc why would they only restrict themselves to asking for people who aren't as talented as they are?

As i see it, the only way to avoid the newb forum being overlooked entirely is to require a moderator approval of new members and restrict them from posting in certain sections immediately, say one month? That way if they ignore the rules and post ads/jobs in the wrong sections they can be banned if necessary.

I know it sounds harsh, but as affordability of our gear increases we are going to see a lot more people expecting the moon on a stick, if they realise they can't have it right now and they need a little patience that will filter out the vast majority and only leave those that are serious and have planned ahead.

My 2 c
  • 0

#9 Fabrizio Sciarra SOC ACO

Fabrizio Sciarra SOC ACO

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 240 posts
  • London,UK

Posted 15 July 2009 - 08:29 AM

The problem would be that many of these people asking for freebies will want to chance their arm asking the pros rather than the newbs. After all they're going to be the Spielberg/Kubrick/Scorcese etc why would they only restrict themselves to asking for people who aren't as talented as they are?


I was just going to say same... <_<
  • 0

#10 David Allen Grove

David Allen Grove

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 891 posts
  • Los Angeles, California,

Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:18 PM

I've noticed a trend of folks coming around here and asking for freebies lately and like most of you, I'm not very happy with said trend. We all know how much time and money we have invested in our careers and having folks come out of nowhere and asking for favors can seem insulting. However, I'm sure that 95% of the time no insult is intended, it seems that most of them are naive or perhaps just ignorant of what is required to make a film.
I'm suggesting that we not take offense at these posts and either ignore them or if you're gonna say no be polite about it. There's no reason to belittle someone's dreams because they asked for help.

Perhaps a generic sticky post that someone could draft up, that would explain why someone wouldn't want to work for free after dropping $100,000 on gear would be appropriate and then we could direct that person to the proper post.

Anyhow before anyone attacks someone for asking just realize that this is their dream, and even though it probably won't work out for them, why kick them in the face just for dreaming?

respectfully,
Josh


I nominate Josh Harrison, Steadicam Forum Moderator. It's election time isn't it?
  • 0

#11 RonBaldwin

RonBaldwin

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2351 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:21 PM

I nominate Josh Harrison, Steadicam Forum Moderator. It's election time isn't it?


let's wait to see how he handles the sheep on Sat night. A compromising picture or two and love of the 'Gav will only secure his leadership qualities.
rb
  • 0

#12 David Allen Grove

David Allen Grove

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 891 posts
  • Los Angeles, California,

Posted 15 July 2009 - 02:30 PM

I nominate Josh Harrison, Steadicam Forum Moderator. It's election time isn't it?


let's wait to see how he handles the sheep on Sat night. A compromising picture or two and love of the 'Gav will only secure his leadership qualities.
rb


Wow, Ron, it sounds like Saturday night is a night not to be missed! LOL.

(Josh, bring those Items I mentioned on the other thread.. you know, just in case. This is starting to sound a little like "Survivor!")
  • 0

#13 Benjamin Treplin

Benjamin Treplin

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 298 posts
  • Berlin - Germany

Posted 15 July 2009 - 03:15 PM

I nominate Josh Harrison, Steadicam Forum Moderator. It's election time isn't it?



I second that! Hopefully Josh is interested.

Cheers
  • 0

#14 Joshua Harrison

Joshua Harrison

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 127 posts
  • Los Angeles

Posted 15 July 2009 - 05:09 PM

I nominate Josh Harrison, Steadicam Forum Moderator. It's election time isn't it?


let's wait to see how he handles the sheep on Sat night. A compromising picture or two and love of the 'Gav will only secure his leadership qualities.
rb


if that's the case I'll soon be president of the US.
  • 0

#15 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Sustaining Members
  • 2922 posts
  • LA, Ca

Posted 16 July 2009 - 01:11 AM

The problem would be that many of these people asking for freebies will want to chance their arm asking the pros rather than the newbs. After all they're going to be the Spielberg/Kubrick/Scorcese etc why would they only restrict themselves to asking for people who aren't as talented as they are?

As i see it, the only way to avoid the newb forum being overlooked entirely is to require a moderator approval of new members and restrict them from posting in certain sections immediately, say one month? That way if they ignore the rules and post ads/jobs in the wrong sections they can be banned if necessary.

I know it sounds harsh, but as affordability of our gear increases we are going to see a lot more people expecting the moon on a stick, if they realise they can't have it right now and they need a little patience that will filter out the vast majority and only leave those that are serious and have planned ahead.

My 2 c



Actually the mods do manually move many posts and then PM the poster that the post has been moved and why.

As for leaving this for the serious, Well this board tends to weed them out fairly quickly. As for limiting peoples ability to post... Well believe it or not, We want people to post up their questions and experiences... BUT sometimes some of those post are, well odd, irritating, grating, infuriating or just plain redundant (Hey SEARCH THE ARCHIVES!) and sometimes it drives the mods to extremes. Just this week we had Kenton reappear, what's not to love about that!

I'm rather enjoying some of the new blood, Go figure :)
  • 0




PLC - Bartech

Teradek

Ritter Battery

PLC Electronics Solutions

SkyDreams

GPI Pro Systems

rebotnix Technologies

Omnishot Systems

Varizoom Follow Focus

Wireless Video Systems

Media Blackout - Custom Cables and AKS

IDX

BOXX

Boland Communications

Betz Tools for Stabilizers

Paralinx LLC

Engineered Cinema Solutions