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Wirelees video asist (low cost)


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#1 Nelson Villamil

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 03:24 PM

Hello guys


Send references about system wirelles of low profile..for user in steadicam system :

i know this systemo no IS top high end....is possible used for backup....and low cost projects

What is the best frequencies

900 Mhz ?

1.2 Ghz?

2.4 Ghz ?

for example:

http://www.flex-cam.com/

http://www.nghobbies...;products_id=92


http://www.rangevide...amp;cPath=35_22
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#2 Eric Fletcher S.O.C.

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 05:09 PM

Hello guys


Send references about system wirelles of low profile..for user in steadicam system :



SEARCH THE ARCHIVES
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#3 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 06:59 PM

I asked some similar questions not too long ago -after- searching the archives and not finding many answers. And, some of my questions remained unanswered, and I was left to my own devices (but thank you to those folks who did kindly offer information.) So do search the archives, Nelson, but probably you won't find all the information you've asked about.

Here is some information to get you started (I would also appreciate any clarifications or corrections from anyone reading this.):

1. Generally, the inexpensive stuff is not very good. Generally, the good stuff is very, very expensive. There are some exceptions but frankly it's hard to tell the difference from ads or web pages.
2. The expensive stuff includes the Modulus, transvideo and Canatrans units. They are well-designed and built, and include important features like diversity receivers for better reception. If you need the highest reliability, there is no substitute.
3. The cheap stuff includes units sold for wireless security/spy cameras and model rocketry/rc aircraft. Many of that gear is sold on ebay. Much of it is said to be unreliable. The security stuff in particular is designed for transmitters that are stationary. When you put the transmitter in motion, the signal breaks up. The rc aircraft stuff appears to be better for this.
4. In general, the higher the frequency the more the video signal is prone to fail. THe range is less with higher frequency, and there are more problems with walls and other obstructions. 1.2ghz and 2.4ghz can also conflict with wireless networks, as well as pro wireless follow focus units. But some apparently use them with little problem.
5. 900mhz seems to be widely used, but is illegal in the US without a ham radio operators license. If that is not a problem in Colombia, then 900mhz seems to be a good frequency range.
6. Some pro units actually broadcast on the UHF TV channels, allowing you to tune in the signal on multiple inexpensive portable TVs on set without special receivers. This is also illegal in the US but widely done.
7. The specs on the cheap units, particularly the power and transmitting range, are probably useless. There's no telling, other than trying it out or getting a recommendation from someone.

The Range Video gear gets favorably mentioned on this and other forums, for being pretty good for inexpensive gear. The transmitters are available with or without an outer case. Without a case, the unit gets very hot to the touch.

I haven't seen comments on either of the others you've linked to. Charles Papert has pointed to some links of inexpensive wireless video gear, I'm sure a search will bring those up. It does seem hard to find people who have experience with the inexpensive systems. Good luck.

Hello guys


Send references about system wirelles of low profile..for user in steadicam system :

i know this systemo no IS top high end....is possible used for backup....and low cost projects

What is the best frequencies

900 Mhz ?

1.2 Ghz?

2.4 Ghz ?

for example:

http://www.flex-cam.com/

http://www.nghobbies...;products_id=92


http://www.rangevide...amp;cPath=35_22


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#4 RonBaldwin

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Posted 08 July 2009 - 07:57 PM

there's actually lots of info if you do a search on the forum. I even googled "wireless video" and BH Photo was at the top of the page with a link to the Titan and Camwave microwave xmitters.

Other microwave systems include the Wevi and the Boxx. The Modulus, the Canatrans, David Hable's Modulus-like thingy (pretty good I hear) are all uhf. The Coherent uses fm I think...and uses it poorly so run away!

Bottom line is you won't find a good one for cheap. As a matter of fact, you won't find a good one for lot's of cash -- they all suck in their own way. Whatever you get you'll need the transmitter, a receiver, and good antennas for both. An inexpensive set-up might be what, $3k? Average might be closer to $6k. Some of the new microwave set-ups are around $7k me thinks (and have the additional benefit of burning a hole in your head so the director can see an image directly on your brain). A generous application of Lisagav will slow the burn, so make sure you get some of that too.

rb
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#5 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 13 July 2009 - 06:58 PM

Ron,

I've found lots of info on the high-end systems such as Titan, Camwave, Wevi, Modulus etc., and not very much info on the lower-end repurposed stuff that he was specifically asking about.

I think it comes as quite a shock to some of the newbies who pay $7-10k for their Pilot/Flyers, only to discover that professional-grade wireless video can cost as much as the rig itself. So the desire to find something that's at least useable for hundreds, rather than thousands, is understandable, particularly if you're trying to make money at the lower end of the market (weddings, corporate, documentary, local commercials, etc.)

there's actually lots of info if you do a search on the forum. I even googled "wireless video" and BH Photo was at the top of the page with a link to the Titan and Camwave microwave xmitters.

Other microwave systems include the Wevi and the Boxx. The Modulus, the Canatrans, David Hable's Modulus-like thingy (pretty good I hear) are all uhf. The Coherent uses fm I think...and uses it poorly so run away!

Bottom line is you won't find a good one for cheap. As a matter of fact, you won't find a good one for lot's of cash -- they all suck in their own way. Whatever you get you'll need the transmitter, a receiver, and good antennas for both. An inexpensive set-up might be what, $3k? Average might be closer to $6k. Some of the new microwave set-ups are around $7k me thinks (and have the additional benefit of burning a hole in your head so the director can see an image directly on your brain). A generous application of Lisagav will slow the burn, so make sure you get some of that too.

rb


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#6 Nelson Villamil

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 12:08 PM

Just Mark

That's what I mean, a low platform for cosot s inexpensive.

Obviously, as professional traders know that there are high-end systems and obviously working as they should be.

But I insist on a system equipped with low-cost work well for low-cost platforms and complement the small (pilot, flyer etc)
and special conditions, documentaries outside urban areas, where a 2.4 Ghz system officer in an acceptable manner because no is interference (distant desert, jungle)

Are some operators here that backup systems are as inexpensive.

Definitely we need to know the different market segments and have knowledge of such additions.

I hope to buy a low cost of my risk and to test and play and share the experience.
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#7 RonBaldwin

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 12:51 PM

most of the "low cost units" you can find aren't meant to move around and are designed to be as stationary as possible...believe me, if there was something halfway decent out there for half the cost of a modulus we'd all have one. That's why you can't find info here...no one has found one. I've used some of the nicer microwave units and even they have issues with delay, freezing, not getting through a wall or sometimes even across the set. I know you are talking about microwave, but maybe save up for a used modulus or get one of Dave Hable's that works on any tv or tuner. Think about putting your $$ into something with a proven track record. After having some ok luck with some of the nicer units, I'm guessing the results with the $200 unit may be pretty disappointing...who knows? It's only a couple hundred bucks.

I just checked out Dave's site and he offers a $600 single channel xmitter as well as a $2k one that is on par with a modulus 3000. Spending $3k on an xmitter/reciever pkg is an investment in peace of mind that will last for years and will be able to be rented or re-sold later.

http://www.crampedat...tters/index.htm

We are still waiting for a unit that can xmitt hd to the village so we can unplug the dreaded cable
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#8 Erwin Landau

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Posted 15 July 2009 - 05:05 PM

I can't get rid of that feeling that people who are asking for low cost solutions think that we are hiding something from them.
If we could find something that is cheaper and does the job well, don't you think that it would be already discussed here and in use on Film sets worldwide? I would love to show up on set with less then $200K of equipment... especially when the UPM is dreading to get me a insurance cert as he doesn't believe me that my equipment is worth that much... or afraid to do so as he had to actually cover my lose in an incident.

I had a seasoned Show runner come up to me a short while ago and asked me how much my equipment was... What $20-$30K? When I replied that would cover just about my Steadi arm she choked.

There are certain pieces of equipment that are costing what they are costing, with a small margin of profit for the manufacturer. Nobody gets rich as of late making highly specialized professional equipment for a small nitch market like ours. Why are high end camera, Film or Video, costing in excess of a quarter Million just for the body? Because they expect to sell maybe 1000 in a 10 year life span. The RED has sold almost seven times that much in two... that's why they are cheaper... and it's all about quantity over quality (BTW: Does that thing finally work?).

There are more and more companies trying to make a buck with people like you. Look at the track record of these companies.. how long have they build that specific piece of equipment? Are they going to be around in one, two or maybe 5 years so that you can make sure you will still have the parts and the support down the line?

I owned 8 rigs in the same time period that I owned two Transmitter (Modulus, now the Canatrans) and two Receivers (Hermes and now the TR-1). There is no cheap solution for anything Steadicam if you are depending on your gear to make a living for yourself ...

There are many units out there that you can get for cheap... why are we not using them? Because it's our lively hood. If it doesn't work properly I don't want to have it in my kit. I rather spend 3 or 4 thousand once, then buy several units and even piss off some Director which at the end will cost you WAY more.

If you can find something that is cheap and works for you and you can live with the performance short comings (not that the high end units have none)... More power to you... you will however not find them on this website.

Good Luck.
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#9 Jason Torbitt

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 06:31 AM

I agree with Erwin's comments - anything 'cheap' = analogue, which = rubbish quality. The digital links (Boxx, Wevi and the like) are the way forward.

Incidentally I'm working with a (composite only) system at the moment which beats both Boxx and Wevi hands down, in terms of range and dropout... more details as and when.
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#10 Fabrizio Sciarra SOC ACO

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 08:59 AM

I can't get rid of that feeling that people who are asking for low cost solutions think that we are hiding something from them.
If we could find something that is cheaper and does the job well, don't you think that it would be already discussed here and in use on Film sets worldwide? I would love to show up on set with less then $200K of equipment... especially when the UPM is dreading to get me a insurance cert as he doesn't believe me that my equipment is worth that much... or afraid to do so as he had to actually cover my lose in an incident.

I had a seasoned Show runner come up to me a short while ago and asked me how much my equipment was... What $20-$30K? When I replied that would cover just about my Steadi arm she choked.

There are certain pieces of equipment that are costing what they are costing, with a small margin of profit for the manufacturer. Nobody gets rich as of late making highly specialized professional equipment for a small nitch market like ours. Why are high end camera, Film or Video, costing in excess of a quarter Million just for the body? Because they expect to sell maybe 1000 in a 10 year life span. The RED has sold almost seven times that much in two... that's why they are cheaper... and it's all about quantity over quality (BTW: Does that thing finally work?).

There are more and more companies trying to make a buck with people like you. Look at the track record of these companies.. how long have they build that specific piece of equipment? Are they going to be around in one, two or maybe 5 years so that you can make sure you will still have the parts and the support down the line?

I owned 8 rigs in the same time period that I owned two Transmitter (Modulus, now the Canatrans) and two Receivers (Hermes and now the TR-1). There is no cheap solution for anything Steadicam if you are depending on your gear to make a living for yourself ...

There are many units out there that you can get for cheap... why are we not using them? Because it's our lively hood. If it doesn't work properly I don't want to have it in my kit. I rather spend 3 or 4 thousand once, then buy several units and even piss off some Director which at the end will cost you WAY more.

If you can find something that is cheap and works for you and you can live with the performance short comings (not that the high end units have none)... More power to you... you will however not find them on this website.

Good Luck.

Nice post
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#11 Jess Haas SOC

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 01:07 PM

Not all analogue systems are rubish but the stable ones are not all that cheap (Canatrans, Modulus)
I have a little 1.2ghz analogue system that I got direct form hong kong via ebay for about $50. It works suprisingly well for $50 but the picture isn't very stable so it is often a bit distorted and it has dropouts quite often. Needless to say I use my Modulus instead.

~Jess
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#12 Sydney Seeber

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Posted 21 July 2009 - 03:07 PM

There are more and more companies trying to make a buck with people like you. Look at the track record of these companies.. how long have they build that specific piece of equipment? Are they going to be around in one, two or maybe 5 years so that you can make sure you will still have the parts and the support down the line?

HELLLOOOOO Redrock Micro, Zacuto, Red, etc...............
Does anyone remember that episode of the Simpsons where Mr. Burns has every disease imaginable, and they're all trying to shove their way through the doorway at once? That's what all of these upstart tradeshows are starting to look like, and even NAB is getting there. EVERYone wants to capitalize off of the massive amounts of people out there who want to follow their dreams of film making rather than picking a more stable career path. The sales departments revel in filling young filmmakers with visions of shortcuts to success, all made possible by their cheap plastic and Erector Set products. Most don't know what's really required and are clearly very susceptible to the sales pitch of a very substandard product. The digital evolution (It's not a revolution, just technology marching on) makes some elements of the business less expensive, but much of it is not, and will never be.
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#13 Mark Schlicher

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 02:39 PM

I recently used this system from Range Video and it was a lot of bang for the hundred bucks. No illusions about how robust it would be in challenging circumstances, but it did the job quite well for what I needed.

Not all analogue systems are rubish but the stable ones are not all that cheap (Canatrans, Modulus)
I have a little 1.2ghz analogue system that I got direct form hong kong via ebay for about $50. It works suprisingly well for $50 but the picture isn't very stable so it is often a bit distorted and it has dropouts quite often. Needless to say I use my Modulus instead.

~Jess


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#14 JobScholtze

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 03:11 PM

I recently used this system from Range Video and it was a lot of bang for the hundred bucks. No illusions about how robust it would be in challenging circumstances, but it did the job quite well for what I needed.

Not all analogue systems are rubish but the stable ones are not all that cheap (Canatrans, Modulus)
I have a little 1.2ghz analogue system that I got direct form hong kong via ebay for about $50. It works suprisingly well for $50 but the picture isn't very stable so it is often a bit distorted and it has dropouts quite often. Needless to say I use my Modulus instead.

~Jess

Thats in the BDF range is it?
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#15 JimBartell

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Posted 15 September 2009 - 03:38 PM

Thats in the BDF range is it?


Yes, that's same frequency the BFD uses and it could very well cause problems.

Jim "900 Mega Hurts" Bartell
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